Creator: Wequito 4 || First Published: 09/05/2021 || Players: 2 || Size: 22x17
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| Categories: A-Rank, Fog of War | ||
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| For design map discussion or to get suggestions from other users, visit the AWBW Discord Chat! |
| Comments: |
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Wequito 4 (09/05/2021 08:07pm):
Another wyj themed FoW map |
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Khrit (10/01/2021 04:06pm):
Sami op, the vehicules need 2 turns to escape factory island |
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Le lieu tenant (10/03/2021 10:59am):
I think that stealths should be ban here(not because I got fucccc because of it right?) |
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Wequito 6 (10/04/2021 09:53am):
@Khrit Sami usually sucks In FoW, I Don't think She is "OP" Because she gets to Exit earlier, Maybe better But never Overpowered @Le lieu tenant I think you Are Correct, One Stealth can Disable an Entire facilty with 0 Quick Counters to It |
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i can play colin too (10/04/2021 08:06pm):
It feels clunky. once the vehicles are out it's fine, but there's very little you can do to combat a medium tank if it surprises you before your opponent threatens to base block you. |
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Unggoy Slaya (10/05/2021 05:32pm | Edited: 10/05/2021 05:43pm):
1 out of 10 where do I start. The com towers are very easy to access for both sides and contest right off the bat. If you are playing against Sami your early game is going to be nigh impossible. You're talking about fighting 150:100 infantry and mechs once she has them secure, there is no way to win until you somehow get your vehicles out. Even then, Mechs with arty support trade very well, and you can have some AA's to knock out any pesky copters. This can also apply to any other CO, its a rough go if you cannot secure at least one com tower. You can still reverse the tables, but it requires some reckless play from your opponent, and amazing arty placement. Second, it takes ages for anything to enter the battlefield once it is produced. Copters take at least 3 turns before they can strike anything, tanks also take about three turns unless you're basically losing. Artillery and Rockets take even longer, which is a staple of any good FOG map. You HAVE to blind counter, and if you don't you WILL lose. The forests at the base's need to be removed to help alleviate this. Third, There is nothing interesting in the center, no points of contention, nothing to entice players to throw anything but limited infantry there. That means everything concentrates on the top and bottom flanks. Not very fun, especially when half your army is trapped behind a river and forests. Fourth, the forward most base's for both players are very much in danger of being sieged by artillery from the opposing team. Effectively losing you the base, whatever you produce from it, and consequently the game. It is also hard to counter without good counter battery fire, because of a well placed forest blocking retaliation, and it taking several turns for your units to reach it. The only good way to counter are expensive rockets in the nearby forest, which is not ideal. For an A-Rank Map it feels very slow, clunky and not well thought out. Please remove it from the League Map pool, players don't need to have their ratings rest on blind countering units. There is always some of that in a FOG map (that's part of the fun), but this is a whole tier above in how vital and game changing blind guessing is. |
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Wequito__J (10/07/2021 08:35am | Edited: 10/07/2021 08:47am):
@Unggoy Slaya Sami is Kind of Bad in FoW because Infantry die Pretty quickly in there, The Towers are Contested but Are closer to One side (Bottom Left Tower is OS's Property), And also If someone Rushes towers they Can easily Be Punished By losing Income/Money advantage, I Don't know How "Buffing" Sami turns her OP or Hard to Play against, Punish her By taking the Cities and Forcing her to sacrifice her Army for the Tower 2nd This is Following the Wyj Guideline of Any Unit Deployed Should take 2-3 Turns to Reach Battlefield, FoW is About Collecting information, If You have all Information and Instant Reinforcement routes You're playing Standard, No, Arties and Rockets are not FoW staples, (See: Grit T3-4 In FoW), You don't Need to Blind counter, You have to Collect info, The forests are There For exactly that Reason, Slow the Units down. 3rd Percisely, The Center is an Attraction itself for Being the Center of the Map, By Owning center You can Go anywhere, It doesn't need To be Stronger than That, They are not Trapped, Read above Section 4th You need Information in FoW, if You had Information you Would have Seen an Artillery is Closing in and You would Have the Ability to Blast it Correctly I Have no Other comments Rather Than I Agree the Bases are Easy to Lock (Specially Using MDs and Stealths) |
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aLittleFishy (10/07/2021 11:37am):
I understand that mechs are a difficult unit to balance, but at the same time the best strategy on this map is to spam mechs towards your opponents comm tower, build a t-copter then ferry more mechs from your neutral base to the same comm tower. As mechs have no true counters apart from easily countered air units and indirects, you build rockets and artillery to prevent your opponents mech push while spamming your own, causing the match to stall out. Also, backing up Unggoy Slaya, the center is indeed useless; you said Wequito_J "By Owning center You can Go anywhere", but the only place you want to go are the comm towers, which you can get to faster by going there directly, so apart from the occasional recon or copter, each player will grab their center properties and then leave, as it takes a long to to reinforce the center making it easy to take back unless you are dominating the map, furthermore, the HQ's should be moved forward to 08,07 and 13,09 to help with stalling out, which this map is basically guaranteed to do so in its current form. 1/10 |
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Surto6 (10/07/2021 11:38am | Edited: 10/07/2021 11:39am):
How'd this map get so popular? `?? |
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SonjaTheSuperior (10/07/2021 03:07pm):
@surto was put in league |
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Wequito__J (10/07/2021 03:14pm):
@aLittleFishy Communication Towers aren't The goal Of the game, It's winning it, Towers just Make it Easier to achieve the Win Owning center Means owning The Easiest way to Move around the Map Allowing you to Deathball (Ultimately what You wan't in FoW) HQ Position seems Alright, And it's Currently in League so I can't do Much about it, sorry. @Surto6 SamiXYL Liked the Map's Idea of Small hub areas And a Medium-Sized map so They added it In |
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Uncharted 2᎓ Among Tiers (10/07/2021 04:03pm):
My main complaints here would be that the reinforcement lines are exceptionally boring and without any meaningful options whatsoever when it comes to vehicles, that I'm worried about day 2 apc cheese for Sami, and that the forest near the 1b side that's in arty locking range of the tower and 2 cities might serve as excessively strong vantage point to wall off the front with if the earlygame progresses rather passively. |
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aLittleFishy (10/09/2021 02:29pm | Edited: 10/09/2021 02:30pm):
From what I have seen from the view games tab, no, high tier players do not death ball, they fight over the towers until they can't do it anymore. It may have been your intention that people would play the map that way, but it is not the way league players are winning the majority of their matches. If one player devotes all their army to going for the comm towers, forgoing them in order to take the center properties is not going to win you the game, you HAVE to contest their army, and the statement "Communication Towers aren't The goal Of the game, It's winning it, Towers just Make it Easier to achieve the Win" only works if the other way to win (HQ cap) is an option which it is not due to its position. I get that you as an individual can't edit the map while it is in league, pointing out the flaw (HQ position) is mainly for when the map is removed from the pool for a while that it can be fixed then. |
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Amias (10/10/2021 01:49am):
I had a lot of fun on this map and I felt like it challenged me in a new way as a player. I ended up overvaluing my infantry and mechs since I thought they'd get to the battlefield at the same time as tanks and recons. I got pretty punished for that. Thank you for the cool map! |
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Hug-0 (10/17/2021 01:14pm):
Idk why this is in the league map pool. I agree with Ungoy and without having played it I am honestly instantly going to resign because this map looks like a slog to play and seems unbalanced in many ways. |
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Unggoy Slaya (10/18/2021 06:04pm):
@Wequito_J Sami is not a strong Fog CO, but that does not mean she is still not a good early game CO because her infantry will spank anyone else's infantry. Her increased capture rate also means it is difficult to contest her captures until vehicles get out. She is the capture specialist, you will feel it in the early game even on a Fog map, and You better have your HQ guarded against 1hp infantry hiding out near your HQ. Plus mech floods with good artillery placement (Which are the MVP's of Fog games) allow you to claw out of tight spots. I have fought her before in Fog maps and I would not call her a push over. Especially if she gets the 2 com towers on the map. That is a position of dominance. Even if you get the temporary money advantage, you're still fighting forces with substantially better offense. It's hard to come back from. As I said, it takes reckless play from your opponent, and good artillery placement to trade well. Instant reinforcements does force people to invest in recons and be more cautious in general. You cannot expect to punish an opponent with a large push without knowing what they have lined up next. You may have broken that defensive line but do you know about the B-copter and MD tank that just spawned behind it? Remember as well, the further you push toward your enemy's HQ, the longer it takes Your reinforcements to catch up. This results in slowed momentum, and a stagnant match. That is a Guideline, not a hard set rule that you cannot bend or tweak. In this map's current form, you Must blind counter, because the forests right outside the bases force you to be slower. Especially with tire units. You are also wrong about Indirect attack units not being a staple in Fog. They are game changers and if you are not using them you are leaving a valuable tool out of your set. The only reason Grit is a lower tier in Fog, is vision. He doesn't always get to use the increased range of his indirects, which is one of his greatest strengths. Ranged units are not your bread and butter by any means, but they are game changers. One clever trap, one miscalculated step and they will ruin someone's day. This is why their deployment and use is very critical in Fog maps, and why I would call them a staple unit. I don't believe your argument for the center holds much water. Yes you can go anywhere I guess, but that also means you can be attacked from anywhere. You now have multiple fronts to be watching over. However, if you moved the HQ's to be more centrally located, now you have a great motivator to have better map control, without drastically changing the map. Just because you have vision on something does not mean you can stop it. The point is that really should not be possible to begin with, especially since Grit is a lower tier CO in Fog maps. That means someone who is Grit will have an even easier time crippling your war effort. It's like having high ground surrounding a base in Starcraft, its going to be exploited by Mutalisks, Carriers, or worse siege tanks and it can be very hard to break. I would recommend moving the HQ's a little more to the center. Move the Blue HQ up 3 spaces, and left 2 spaces, just swap spaces with that city there. Obviously follow symmetry for both HQ's. Then remove the forest just outside of both base locations for both teams, this will help alleviate the complaints about blind countering. You could even add a pipe seam to both bases to allow for faster egress out of the spawn locations, with some time and money investments for mid to late game. Also prevent the base's from being easily sieged by an artillery unit, rocket is fine since they take longer to deploy. These seem to be the main complaints with the map. I was harsh in my earlier score and critique, but I stand by the flaws I pointed out. |
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EFKalcifur (10/21/2021 09:28am):
My only complaint with this map is that it along with Feishui pop up absurdly more frequently than any other maps in the global league fog of war pool lol. I don't have any gripes with the map itself. I think I've seen every situation described by the other comments and will just say that there are no certain victory strategies here. Admittedly, I'm not that good at awbw having only started playing a few months ago, so make of that what you will. |
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Barberedy (10/25/2021 07:21pm):
Please, dont do mechspam maps, they are to tideous to play. |
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Tmi489 (10/28/2021 08:12am | Edited: 10/28/2021 08:34am):
> Sami is not a strong Fog CO, but that does not mean she is still not a good early game CO because her infantry will spank anyone else's infantry. No shit. They also don't suddenly win against a large number advantage, or against vehicles (3 turns isn't a long time!) > You better have your HQ guarded against 1hp infantry hiding out near your HQ. wow put a recon on it or even an infantry > Instant reinforcements does force people to invest in recons and be more cautious in general. You cannot expect to punish an opponent with a large push without knowing what they have lined up next. I don't see anything different here. You need to know where and what the opponenent has to push. > This results in slowed momentum, and a stagnant match. Well, if you win both unit value and contested cities in the long term, and even the tower, then you should be winning, right? You just need to build up for a few turns and you have an advantage your opponent could not possibly fight, no matter what they had. > you Must blind counter Fast reinforcements will cause you to blind counter. If it takes 1 day / 2 days for a recon to get into the front, I could build: - A recon in base 1 - A recon in base 2 - A tank in either base, 2 days later. I am unable to tell which base my opponent built a recon in, if they built one at all. A recon could snipe an infantry for absolutely free and there is nothing i can do to stop it. Or a recon could snipe an infantry on the other side of the map. Or my recon, at the same time, could get decimated by a tank that happened to be a t the right area. What long front lines do is let you build up a decent army without these *truly* blind exchanges. Then, building a recon isnt nearly a big deciding factor of your army composition, and you can get more information as necessary. Meanwhile; Antiair are good at some point, regardless of whenever your opponent builds a copter. At some point of the game MD Tanks are good, regardless of if the opponent built an MD. And if and when it makes sense for your opp to build an MD, well, it makes sense, doesn't it? Then it really isn't blind, then. Turbo MDs can be punished by going somewhere else; that's 16k dedicated to defending one front. Guess how you control going somewhere else?: > I don't believe your argument for the center holds much water. Yes you can go anywhere I guess, but that also means you can be attacked from anywhere. Two armies of 50% size can't (independently) fight an army of 100% size. I can trap one of your armies and completely destroy a front while the other 50% of your army is stuck there, doing nothing. Especially if you're building mechs. > Just because you have vision on something does not mean you can stop it. Who's forcing you to attack into them? > The only reason Grit is a lower tier in Fog, is vision lol turn fog off and try to play with artillery here |
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Unggoy Slaya (11/03/2021 12:35pm):
Reference Tmi489's comment Unfortunately in the context of a League Fog game, you cannot turn Fog off, you are stuck with it. Hence my comment about how it can be abused with the right CO's, namely Grit. My comments were not about Grit being a bad CO in general, or complaining about him being a lower tier because of Fog. It was to demonstrate a very specific deficiency in the Map design. Defeat in detail can be a very useful strategy, however its not as simple as you propose. If you focus one front with most of your troops to overwhelm it you leave yourself open in the other direction. Simple logic there. Controlling the center does not guarantee an advantage, and actually increases the amount of area you must defend with your limited resources. The center does not offer enough of gain to warrant the risk of moving significant units there. 3 turns for fresh units to arrive to a hotly contested front is a long time. It's even longer if you are attempting to exploit a weakness in your enemies lines further away from your bases. Recon's are not nearly as useful as you propose given their limited combat utility and cost. So they really should not be gallivanting around "Sniping" infantry. That is a great way to get 4000 credits worth of units destroyed for nothing. Just because you have an advantage in a Fog Match right now, doesn't mean you will retain it. You can walk right into well setup traps, face CO's that are excellent at recovering (IE Andy, Hawke, Drake, Olaf, etc) because they heal, deal damage or both. You can lose a definitive edge in a Fog match in a few turns with the wrong moves which is one of the appeals. Which is why decent reinforcement times are imperative to keep the momentum to make a decisive win. Versus having to continually back off to eventually wear your opponent down, which just kills the pacing. Another map does this concept much better by making the HQ's much more exposed. Crossfire Schwarzwald is the name. It's another League Fog map, with average ratings but much better than this map. Because you actually have a reason to commit forces to the open center. You opponent's HQ is there, and is the best way to win a match. I even recommended the same course of action here by adjusting the HQ positions to make them more vulnerable. Using that as a tangent about Sami in Fog, you can choose to guard your HQ the whole game. But by doing so you are making a strategic move to sacrifice the money there where it could be used to help elsewhere. Even a cheap infantry can be crucial since they allow you to capture properties and further expand your war making capabilities. So just holding an infantry there for the whole game can be enough to stall an advance, or prevent you from decisively winning elsewhere. It's better to just have good map awareness and understand when her SCOP is becoming active and then actively guarding it during those times. Which is how you counter Sami's SCOP in general. If you have a massive advantage then yea you're likely going to win, but that doesn't happen early in a game against her. Because her vehicles are worse, you are supposed to survive the onslaught, trade well and then push back. That is harder to do if she has two com towers and you have zero, which is one of my main grievances with this map. These are just my opinions of the map, I make no claim to be a grand master or any expert at this game. Merely a competent player who is trying to get better at PvP in League games. I do think there is potential to make this map better, and if I am going to be forced to play it, then I would like to see those changes made. |
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Wequito 7 (11/09/2021 06:20pm):
Insert opinion about How this Map literally Killed the FoW Global League, My elo and that It represents everything Wrong with things I'm not Used to Etc Etc... |
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Lost and Found (11/10/2021 04:38pm):
This map sucks, my friend lost a game on it |
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TheGamerASD (11/10/2021 04:51pm | Edited: 11/10/2021 04:52pm):
How Mors Celeri Killed The Global League Mors Celeri is an extremely bad map which has killed the fog of war global league. This map represents everything wrong with the world and is not fun to play on. But to understand how bad this map is, we first need to understand what it actually is. This is a fog of war map, and according to Wikipedia, fog of war "...is the uncertainty in situational awareness experienced by participants in military operations." The fog of war on this map makes it hard to know what your opponent is building and to counter it effectively. This leads to a less fun gameplay experience for the players. This becomes even worse when you consider the terrain near the bases. According to Wikipedia, terrain "...is militarily critical because it determines the ability of armed forces to take and hold areas, and move troops and material into and through areas." As you can see on this map, the heavy terrain near the bases makes it take an extremely long time for units to reach the front. A front, as described by Wikipedia, is "...the line of contact of two opposing forces." Due to how long it takes to get units to the front, you are forced to blindy guess what units your opponent has which removes all elements of skill from the match. Another thing I would like to bring up is that the communication towers are heavily contested. This means that you have to send all of your forces over to them because losing them will cost you the game. This causes the center to be devoid of units while units all go towards the towers. In addition, commanding officers such as Sami, being an infantry specialist, will be able to easily take the communication towers while other officers will struggle to do so. This means that playing against Sami puts you in a juxtaposition where you must try and stop your opponent from taking the towers while also attempting to maintain a presence in the center, which is impossible due to Sami's better infantry units. Now you might think that you can utilize vehicles to stop Sami. After all, her vehicles do have -10% attack. The problem is that she can just use mechanized infantry to kill your vehicles, and in fog of war, you can easily be hit by a mechanized infantry unit that you are unable to see until it's too late. Also, once Sami is inevitably able to capture the communication towers, her vehicles now no longer have their attack strength debuff, making it even harder to win against Sami. In conclusion, Mors Celeri fails to make an enjoyable experience for players. It gives commanding officer Sami a huge advantage, forces you to blindly counter, and has fog of war. Mors Celeri is a poorly designed map which causes winning to come down to luck more than skill. Works Cited: “Fog of War.” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 20 Sept. 2019, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_of_war. “Front (Military).” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 10 June 2021, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_(military). “Terrain.” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 13 Feb. 2019, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrain. [This is a joke] |
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aLittleFishy (11/10/2021 06:38pm):
Neither Unggoy Slaya nor myself said anything in the comments about this map killing global league, nor it representing everything wrong with league, nor saying it sucked because a friend lost a match on it. I can only speak for myself here, but in my opinion, if you have a problem with the comments i have left then please, state specifically how you feel i am incorrect, or message me about it and i will edit the comment to reflect this new information. I am not claiming to be an expert on the PvP scene nor map-making. Unggoy Slaya made it quite clear in their latest comment this exact sentiment. And on a personal note, if i were asked what was ruining global league, i would say it is a willingness by certain players to treat other's comments as trash that are not even worth debating, begging the question of why even have all players allowed to comment if very few opinions actually matter; as if the only purpose of the comment section is to insult other players for being bad, wrong, or just not "getting it". FYI Wequito 7 "Insert opinion about How this Map literally Killed the FoW Global League, My elo and that It represents everything Wrong with things I'm not Used to Etc Etc..." This is inarguably an insult which came not out of someone in the comments insulting you, but at a guess, out of spite for the largely negative comments and low rating your map unfortunately has. |
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Wequito__J (11/11/2021 10:13am | Edited: 11/11/2021 10:14am):
@aLittleFishy I'm glad You like the map So much as to look at it Every day, I hope you Still enjoy it and the Games you have on it, You can also check out My wide Variety of over 180 Maps to choose from and Have fun in them, I also appreciate the Effort to criticize and dissect my pieces to write Logical and Sound arguments as to What their Problems and Enhancements are (Along with your own Ideas on how to Solve them), Thanks for the Positive comments! |
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Grimm Reaper (11/15/2021 09:09am | Edited: 11/15/2021 09:09am):
Honestly, Mech Spam is so bad on this map, even when as Sami. I've faced it twice now and it seems really easy to counter if you're patient and with some good unit management. Just don't suicide tanks into the mech congo line one by one and wait for vehicles to mass up. Mechs do not scale well at all and at some point they're not all going to be able to cover each other and get picked off by tanks. Until then, get an arty, point it at your tower, then send yuor tanks center and eat the two cities there. You should end up equalizing on income because there's no way they have enough tanks to contest you early on if they're mech spamming. Just not how the game works. Also, mechs trying to aggro your tower lose to copters because AA can't support them without getting cut off. If anyone thinks otherwise, feel free to send me a challenge. I'll even play a CO like Jess or Grimm vs Sami. -Kantbei |
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Tmi489 (11/18/2021 05:01pm | Edited: 11/19/2021 03:46am):
re: blind counter If you have vehicles in mid - which take 1 turn to reinforce units in either front - then you can move to any area of the map to either: respond, or to take advantage that they "leave [them]self open in the other direction". > Recon's are not nearly as useful as you propose given their limited combat utility and cost. So they really should not be gallivanting around "Sniping" infantry. That is a great way to get 4000 credits worth of units destroyed for nothing. The thing is that it [still] creates luck based openers. APC/Tank/Recon is the big triangle. I neglected to mention APC since in many maps, they aren't good. Though, all three options can of approximately equal viability: Tank [again, in the right base] punishes earlier recon, but loses to APC's fund advantage. Recon won't do much with early tank whilst hampering your early tank presence, but it will destroy an APC opener. APC is sure to get a major funds/city advantage over a tank build, but loses to recon. As you can not possibly have vision on what your opponent builds, it is 'true' luck based. (Also, if you can be 100% certain that a recon will not be hit by a tank, because any possible tank is too slow, then you can snipe infantry. Zero chance of punishment. This often requires math/ Ex. if Recon sees APC+Inf too far forward, it gets an unpunishable hit, ruining the opener. ) Compare this to long front lines, where 1. the first vehicle won't hamper earlygame tank builds as much, and 2. recons can more safely get vision without getting attacked. Short-ish (often within ~2 turns) vehicle to front timing means an unseeable, and potentially game losing triangle at a high enough level. This is why pretty much every fog map in league takes so long to get to the action; IMO, it seems like you're just ragging on this map in particular out of confirmation over anything. Finally, you can still build recons and tanks and all that jazz on this map, which still scouts just as well as any other post-wyj map. Any high tech units your opponents will build has to go through the same process, as long as you fight near actually contested areas (where units take equally as long to get to). > You can lose a definitive edge in a Fog match in a few turns with the wrong moves which is one of the appeals. > Just because you have an advantage in a Fog Match right now, doesn't mean you will retain it. But why would I want to lose my definitive edge when I could... just not? Doesn't seem great in a competitive global league - especially when I could take (by your admission) better & less risky moves to do so. If you retain income + unit value advantage for a noticable amount of time, you *have* to be winning. Along with attacking in areas where you know your opponent is weak. One way to do this is to fight in areas further from their factories (winning one side's easily contestable cities, moving to take mid, then swapping somewhere else). Recons later in the game can find where your opponent is focusing, so you take advantage of where they aren't. > You opponent's HQ is there, and is the best way to win a match. I even recommended thesame course of action here by adjusting the HQ positions to make them more vulnerable. Crossfire-In Black Forest (and Schwartzwald, it's derrivative) are seperate maps - not every map needs HQs at its center. That map may promote HQ pushes, but for varieties sake, there should be maps where the HQ isnt a big factor for most of the game (which affects gameplay before somebody gains an insumountable advantage). If you can autowin by sitting with a big enough funds+unit advantage, then it's really a formality to end the game with your big blob that the opponent can not possibly answer. Late-game COs like Olaf/Eagle change the equation a little bit, but they sitll have to answer your big blob appropriately. At that point you won so your opponent doesn't have a real choice but to forfiet. Now, your opponent can still choose to stall the game, but how much different is this from stalling the timer? The fact that your opponent can stall is not something that is possible (or particularlly desirable - HQ is still somewhat vulnerable, but making it more vulnerable would change games still in contention) to fix. |
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Bakannon (11/26/2021 08:32pm):
This sure is a map. |
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Weenie Hut (11/29/2021 08:14am):
it's over. |
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Wequito__J (11/30/2021 08:57am):
It really is over. |
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Dredge (11/30/2021 02:34pm):
ggwp |
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Flooken (11/30/2021 03:36pm | Edited: 11/30/2021 04:04pm):
So,what do I think of this map? This map seems like it suffers from mech spam issues I think this is a result of 2 things 1.Mechs are faster than vehicles In most maps , it takes a long time for mechs to reach the front.The mechs’ slow movement means they’ll have to wait a lot of turns before they reach the front with their movement of 2.However,the base is very close to the front and the only thing stopping vehicles from are rivers.Mechs are not affected by rivers.This means that vehicles will be slowed down by rivers (and trees) to reaching the front in 3 turns whilst mechs take the same time which basically negates their low movement-their one major downside. Now this wouldn’t be a problem if it wasn’t for the next thing 2.It’s much harder to set up a deathball (This part is a lot more like speculation) Usually,mech spam isn’t really much of a problem since you can easily counter it by setting up a deathball. However,the comm towers are contested.Now that usually wouldn’t be a problem except for the fact that you can probably own both comm towers,especially if you’re Sami.That means that you’ll have to actively engage otherwise you’ll be 2 comm towers down.Sure you could ignore the comm towers and try to set up a deathball of your own but what if your opponent (who owns the 2 comm towers) sets up a deathball to counter your deathball?It probably won’t end well. So you either try to keep engaging to get at least 1 of the comm towers whilst your opponent attacks you with mechs or you set up a push and hope your opponent doesn’t set up a counter push. I do think a counter push is unlikely which is why I said this part was like speculation I think you could fix the mech spam issues by either A.Replacing some rivers (the ones adjacent to the outer bases) with pipes which could also fix the day 6 HQ rushes or B.Making centre more relevant (mechs take more time to travel there than vehicles) 3/10. 6/10 if the mech spam issues are remedied. |
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Wequito 7 (12/01/2021 10:24am):
Eh... 100% Honest here the Map quirk is Mechs and Infantry being good and Able to Fight eachother early Game, Something not Common in FoW, Most maps Are all Units slap in Middle at once, This one allows for Early exchanges |
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Shattercoin (01/29/2022 07:20pm | Edited: 01/29/2022 08:43pm):
My actual biggest problem with this map is the FTAC Infantry's position. that thing can go cap the enemy HQ in 6 days while any infantry defenders are 4 days movement away from it. And if the BM CO is Sami then even if they reach the HQ in time to attack it on day 5 when it starts capping, the earliest possible point OS can get infantry there, it may not be enough to actually stop the HQ cap unless you dedicate BOTH of OS' day 1 built infantry to blocking it. which also delays all your other property caps by an additional turn. BM, on the other hand, doesn't have to stress as much as the infantry from the equivalent base on the OS side can't move on day 1. Tl;Dr: Either move the pre-deployed infantry to the other BM base, as is it's a very exploitable HQ cap cheese map for P2. Or plop something on the HQ to prevent it. |
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Mint_Swater (06/16/2022 01:16am):
Shattercoin is right. If BM is Sami, OS cannot defend their HQ even with a Day3 recon, force them to blind move thier first inf AND Day3 recon to avoid a sudden death on day6. Thats a huge disadvantage on both economy and tower-capping. |
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fyram (02/06/2025 11:14am):
equal income = 20k |
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