Forlorn and In Despair
Creator: DaysOfPlague || First Published: 10/11/2024 || Players: 2 || Size: 21x17
Categories: B-Rank, Standard
Rating: 5.00 in 1 rating
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Comments:
DaysOfPlague (10/11/2024 09:03pm):
A 3v2 base-heavy map based on A Hope Forlorn (https://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=77060).

The extra infantry count allows for extremely strong arty pushes and swarm tactics rarely seen in standard.


25k even split income. (This is only 5k/base, but is the same as AHF production +2 infantry)
MontySigurdson (03/29/2025 07:27am | Edited: 03/29/2025 07:29am):
So I think this is (still) B-rank due to several factors:

- The map is rather slow (fighting likely won't start until about day 9 outside of very specific openings maybe).

- The frontline is flat (looks to be a vertical line through the middle initially), so I'd be concerned if there are actually enough openings for units to get killed, especially since this is Base Heavy.

- Tank order is ABABB (without baseskips), though I think it doesn't matter that much here since I'd argue tanks aren't even that good due to the high amounts of Infantry. However, it also means that CI gets to pressure PC's weak side early on with 2 tanks which might be slight FTA?

- Some bases are worse than others - (04,16) and (01,12) are worse than (04,14) in most cases (and seem to be strictly worse in terms of vehicles).
DaysOfPlague (05/04/2025 04:00am | Edited: 05/04/2025 04:28am):
> The map is rather slow (fighting likely won't start until about day 9 outside of very specific openings maybe).
Technically true, but that's really just because of the FTA/base setup. Since the bases start uncaptured, the entire game is
delayed by 2 turns, so you're really talking about day 7 which is pretty normal.
Dunno how much it really matters, but I modified the setup to just play out the first 2 turns. It does mean basedelay openings
and aren't an option and it looks weird that the strong side inf starts on the "wrong" base, but it definitely feels worth skipping
2 opening turns.

> The frontline is flat (looks to be a vertical line through the middle initially)
???
This map is very obviously ripped off from A Hope Forlorn. The active fronts initially are the strong-sides vs the weak-sides
not the center.
The center absolutely stalls if both players mindlessly send all their units there, but that's kind of how it has to be. Maps
where the main front is the center are pretty much always TA or stally.
It's a good thing the center stalls out early, because that means you can't force a fight there which means you have to
actually do interesting stuff on the other parts of the map. (Same is true for A Hope Forlorn, and that one center city doesn't
change that either - it's absolutely a mistake to focus on the center first there, and if it wasn't that city would be a major
source of TA).

> Tank order is ABABB (without baseskips), though I think it doesn't matter that much here since I'd argue tanks aren't even
that good due to the high amounts of Infantry.
They're definitely still one of the most important and reliable units, but yeah I agree.
> CI gets to pressure PC's weak side early on with 2 tanks which might be slight FTA?
I don't think so.
1) Depending on the COs, I think you almost always want something other than a pure tank opening. mech/recon/apc/arty all
have their uses.
2) An early baseskip is absolutely an option here.
3) If I'm really trying to eke out an advantage from vehicle ordering... maybe I'd prefer PC since they're ahead on the airport?
4) Even if we stick to pure tanks, the fact the weak side can build 2 tanks simultaneously mitigates tank order stuff in
general. Normally, the weak side (a lone base) can never catch up in pure tank production.

> Some bases are worse than others - (04,16) and (01,12) are worse than (04,14) in most cases (and seem to be strictly
worse in terms of vehicles).
This is true, but I'd phrase that the opposite way. One base (04,14) is is advantaged for vehicle production (and partially for
inf).
I also think that's a good thing. Buffing the other bases would make the strong side better, and the weak side would really
have no counter-offensive opportunities.
The main way this can play out is if there's a fight over the comm tower. Both weak side bases can reach it in 2 tank turns
(actually even an MD reaches in 2 turns) but only the forward strong side base can reach it in 2 turns - the other bases need
3 turns.



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