European Diplomats
Creator: Pincer_Strike || First Published: 12/27/2006 || Players: 8 || Size: 40x40
Categories: B-Rank, Historical/Geographical, FFA Multiplay
Rating: 8.53 in 201 ratings
For design map discussion or to get suggestions from other users, visit the AWBW Discord Chat!
Comments:
Mantimus Prime (12/31/2006 12:24pm):
seems awfully close-proximity to every other country.
swiftninjav2 (12/31/2006 12:29pm):
Why does France have a base in Africa but the UK don't..
Crow T. Robot (12/31/2006 12:35pm):
Yeah they do, look at Egypt
got chicken? (12/31/2006 01:20pm):
GE, OS, BH, and JS are all screwed. BM has a huge advantage and RF will die eventually
(they'll have a good run though. Very bad map.
Pincer_Strike (12/31/2006 07:55pm | Edited: 12/31/2006 08:05pm):
If it goes well, everyone should get about the same number of cities (with BM and YC with a
few extra), so everyone who plays intelligently has a reasonable chance. Each nation has
something that gives them an edge in some way. Also, press and secret alliances makes the
game much more interesting than a mere free-for-all.

The countries have the following capacities:

OS: Decent center position, mostly closed borders, African colonization
BM: Extra funds, Scandinavian colonization
GE: Center position, easily defendable properties, Scandinavian colonization
YC: Extra funds
BH: Center position, chokepoint borders
RF: Defensible island properties, naval bases, African colonization, Scandinavian
colonization
JS: Center position, powerful naval presence, African colonization
TG: Isolated position, powerful naval presence, African colonization
dboy (11/08/2007 06:07pm | Edited: 11/10/2007 01:25pm):
Good maps don't always have to be symmetrically balanced, but they should give every
player a decent chance. That is what this map does so well. Disparities between countries
can be mitigated by secret alliances, which makes for some thrilling "diplomacy". Watching
the balance of power fluctuate on this map as alliances shift is a joy. And it is a delight to
see such accurate geographial representation - this map is up there with Benbever's 'The
World' for attention to detail.
Outstanding 10/10
Red11 (12/29/2007 05:20pm):

This is the best Europe map I have seen and Im enjoying our game.
hoffd2177 (01/18/2008 09:03am):
queston wht does RF have a port right next to TG?
advancewars247 (01/29/2008 11:16pm):
That port is the port of Gibralter, which has been under British control for almost 300 years, dating back to the War
of Spanish Succession.
demonhands (01/31/2008 03:42pm):
ive yet to join a game...is press allowed in every game, a la Diplomacy style?
Jup (01/31/2008 04:39pm):
in a game like this you almost cant win whidout press :)
demonhands (01/31/2008 07:31pm):
hey help me out, how do you send press once yr in a game? do you just click a users name
and send a message? or does it have an interface for that, like on dipbounced.com?
demonhands (01/31/2008 07:31pm):
hey help me out, how do you send press once yr in a game? do you just click a users name
and send a message? or does it have an interface for that, like on dipbounced.com?
6 letters (02/29/2008 09:06am):
The first map ive seen where the uk looks remotely like the uk, with stuff like gibraltar
represented (aregentine war much lol ^_^)
qwzprospect (03/25/2008 03:44pm):
Good, i like the french in algeria, and the british in egypt, its really life like, but
playable 8/10
Punintended (03/27/2008 01:26pm):
This is definitely one of my favorite maps. I'm not much of a mapmaker myself, but it
seems to me that GE needs some kind of land connection to Scandinavia (via ports or shoals
or something) to offset the fact that BM is the only one that doesn't need Landers to get
vehicles over there. That, and BH is essentially hosed, having nothing more than
bargaining power to survive.
Harmony Bunny (04/19/2008 12:38pm):
A very, very good map. Geographically and historically very accurate, even though Spain is
not supposed to have a base in Africa.

I don't like to rate maps, but this one deserves a perfect score /10
Pincer_Strike (04/21/2008 09:32pm):
Actually, Spain did have a presence in Morocco during the colonial era.
Harmony Bunny (04/23/2008 01:47pm):
True, but in the southern part of the country, which is currently called "Western Sahara".
The northern half of Morocco was part of the French colonial Empire.

Oh well, that's just nitpicking. Placing the Spanish base here obviously makes the game fairer
so...
Pincer_Strike (04/24/2008 11:14pm):
Not entirely correct. While it is true that Rio de Oro (Western Sahara) was under Spanish
control and the French were in Morocco, there was such a thing as Spanish Morocco which
was directly next to the Straight of Gibraltar.
Harmony Bunny (04/25/2008 09:04am):
As on this map I guess? (http://www.worldstatesmen.org/colonial_moroc.jpg)

I thought that Spanish Morocco was an entirely international zone... but erh, looks like I was
wrong again ^^'
Raldow (05/17/2008 07:54am):
Well, what is there to say? I am looking forward to playing on this map! Looks great, and is
the most historically correct map of Europe! My only concern is how small each country is,
but either way, very good. 9/10
lindsay40k (05/17/2008 08:11am | Edited: 05/29/2008 07:38pm):
French/Spanish warships presently cannot get to Germany/Scandinavia without going all the
way around Britain.

Britain or France should have to at the least post a naval unit to maintain this blockade,
so take away a Shoal or two along their coasts of move Britain one space up or left to
open the channel.

Also, Spain is at a disadvantage; being as their only neighbour is France, it is certain
that the two will fight at some point. Given that France has FTA and Spain has only one
base to begin with, the odds are strongly stacked against Spain, who can only really offer
services as kingmaker to Italy or Germany to get the coalition needed to survive a likely
early attack. I suggest that the mountain-bordered city next to France should be TG-owned
from the start to give Spain a better chance in the early game.
Gunmetal Alice (05/22/2008 05:27pm):
This is my favourite map on AWBW.

Congratulations, it plays great, it looks great, it still plays great when people resign
(and still feel accurate when they do), everybody have a good chance of winning if they
play well, etc.

Got it all.

10/10 hands down
Pincer_Strike (05/31/2008 02:29pm):
Actually, France is the one that suffers in the long term. Unless France gains a swift
victory against one of its neighbors, they lose their offensive edge. Spain gets hammered
early on, but only by the French who cannot focus solely on them. France is a tricky one
to play.

Also, thanks for all of the positive feedback everyone!
nirial1991 (06/01/2008 11:26pm):
Congrats Pincer_Strike on encouraging historical discussion because of your incredibly
detailed map. Shall you play against me someday?
Punintended (06/30/2008 08:14pm):
So I'm pretty sure this is the only map in the whole of AWBW-dom that actually gets better
when people drop out. It's seriously like a whole 'nother map whenever you've gotta deal
with the strategies of gobbling up neutrals, shifting alliances, dealing with new
super-power countries, and the like. I'd give this another 10/10, if I could.
Gunfighter (07/09/2008 05:12pm):
Reminds me of Castle Risk, slighlty. You should remove the shoal next to the port were
Istanbul would be at, allow larger ships out.
sellout2154 (07/18/2008 05:33pm):
This is a very good map! 10/10
chives (07/21/2008 10:43am):
It's the best map on AWBW, if you ask me!
tasthomas (08/14/2008 01:54pm):
Wow, 11/10 in fun factor. The only problem is that this is sooo cut-throat that my
real-life buddies all hate each other now. :-) Too good.
lordliam (09/11/2008 06:08pm):
lol at gibraltar
storeyboy2005 (11/01/2008 04:42pm):
Can i just say this is a great map no matter what anyone says

totally fantastic , ive got like 10 games on this and love them all

havent lost one so far qwhich im quite happy with but only one has finished lol with me
winning yay
Meta Rexy (11/27/2008 07:45pm):
This map is one of the best multiplayer maps ever made. :D
It's awesome. Historically accurate, playable, VERY fun even if one or two countries
quits, and requires a lot of strategy. :D

I personally don't think TG and BH are in good positions...
TG is isolated and requires landers to move ground units to the rest of Europe, which
means others will gradually increase their funds as they play but unless TG invades a
country he's going to get sidelined while the other nations duke it out...
BH, though he's got chokepoint borders, has to deal with artillery, which thrive with
chokepoints...
10/10 regardless though. :D
Pincer_Strike (11/29/2008 07:02pm):
Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm glad everyone is enjoying their games.

I would like to address the comment by Meta Rexy in-depth however:

You have keen observations Meta Rexy; however, I will say that TG has the unique position
of having only one direct neighbor, OS. While these two are almost certain to fight each
other at some point, TG has a certain degree of flexibility which OS does not. OS and can
still effectively fight and often times be quite successful against TG, but it requires a
very concentrated attack to finish TG off and often the ever-shifting situation on the map
as a whole prevents OS from doing so. This allows TG to counterattack and they are usually
in the strongest position to take the mainland portion of OS in the event of their demise.
In the rare case of an alliance of OS and TG, TG becomes a powerful naval and support
player because he can spend his funds relatively freely if OS isn't hostile. Therefore,
I'd say TG has a fairly good position. Regarding BH, their position does look grim;
however, they are very unique in that they control a "hot territory" on the map, that is,
they occupy an area that all of its neighbors desire for greater leverage: BM, GE, YC, and
JS all attack because securing bases in BH territory gives them some type of security to
their home borders or a forward projection of power (this part is true mainly of BM
because their home bases are so distant from the front). This makes BH almost certainly a
target and BH cannot hold out long against the combined force of all four of its
neighbors. However, BH has two special weapons to work to its advantage: diplomatic
agreements and the tendency of players to drop out. If BH can broker treaties with one or
two of its neighbors, it can effectively defend and even successfully attack its
neighbors. Since BH is in such a "hot territory", BH often has a very good prospect of
claiming significant territory if any of its neighbors drop out. These factors, at least
from what I have observed, help explain why BH despite its seemingly bad position has the
highest win percentage of all the teams.
PCJedi (01/13/2009 01:50am):
Very good map overall, but it does seem like TG, JS, and BH might have some trouble
expanding from their starting positions, as there are enemies everywhere they turn for JS
and BH, and TG would have a lot of trouble expanding onto mainland Europe due to the
terrain. But it's still a very good looking map, and deserves a 10/10 just for the
exquisite detail you put into modeling it after the real world.
NJ_advancwrs14 (02/15/2009 12:33pm):
Best map in the game
Falconewing (05/13/2009 08:31pm):
Its not that good
Tyrantboy (07/11/2009 08:03pm):
Teams should be based on historic events such as France & England
There have been knows deals with Hitler helping spain during its civil war so Germany and
Spain, Greece and Turkey and lastely Russian and its soviet satellite states
LeoXiao (07/24/2009 05:39pm):
Spain should've been left out (because it would just die) and a scandinavian nation
should've been implemented to fend off russia.
Eagle striker 53 (09/27/2009 04:07pm):
Why doesn't Germany have a base in Africa?
DJ-Moogle (09/29/2009 10:33am):
This map sucks, I don't understand why people love it so much. Everyone spams infantry and
indirects, half the people playing drop out, and BM wins because they're far away from
everyone else.
Darth Hawke (10/26/2009 10:59pm):
DJ, everyone spams infantry in nearly all the maps. Plus, Infantry + Indirects is a common
strategy around here. And maybe if you read some of these comments, you won't be judged as
an idiot.
OKELLYSniper (11/16/2009 06:31pm):
If it goes well, everyone should get about the same number of cities (with BM and YC with a
few extra), so everyone who plays intelligently has a reasonable chance. Each nation has
something that gives them an edge in some way. Also, press and secret alliances makes the
game much more interesting than a mere free-for-all.

The countries have the following capacities:

OS: Decent center position, mostly closed borders, African colonization
BM: Extra funds, Scandinavian colonization
GE: Center position, easily defendable properties, Scandinavian colonization
YC: Extra funds
BH: Center position, chokepoint borders
RF: Defensible island properties, naval bases, African colonization, Scandinavian
colonization
JS: Center position, powerful naval presence, African colonization
TG: Isolated position, powerful naval presence, African colonization

Jade Sun has no naval presence! Thanks to you, I'm now screwed! How Am I suppsoed to
get ships out with shores blocking the northern port and shores blocking the southern port
into the Atlantic.
OKELLYSniper (11/16/2009 06:33pm):
6/10, for the disadvantages,
-1 for Red Fire for being Isolated, which gives them NO money
-1 for Blue Moon's obvious advantage
-1 for Jade Sun's Naval disadvantage
-1 for whoever Spain is, they can easily take RF's port, no joke. The only thing they can do is
submerge a sub and waste money.That is, if they decide to keep it.
Alathon (02/04/2010 09:37pm):
Best. Map. Ever.
jhuni (03/01/2011 12:34am):
If you are playing as one of the European countries: OS, GE, BH, JS, TG, or RF you are
screwed.

If you are playing as one of the countries outside of Europe: BM or YC, then you have a
significant advantage. BM is the only player with land access to Scandinavia so he can
roll right in and capture everything there well facing basically no opposition, he is the
best off on this map because he is the furthest away from the other players.

YC also has an advantage. He is the only player with multiple bases pointed towards
Africa. He will face some opposition there, but not much. RF has a basically indefensible
base there which will quickly fall and the other isolated bases will fall shortly after.

In summary, if you want to win don't join as any army other then BM or YC.
serativale (03/23/2011 05:37am):
I'm wondering if you can replace the HQs with labs... so countries have more choices in
which places to give up or keep.
Meta Rexy (04/05/2011 05:37pm):
Jade Sun is in a worse position than I initially believed.
If he ever has to fight Black Hole one on one, he will lose because both of his mainland
bases are in range of Black Hole's Artillery or rockets.
Although he gets colonies in Africa, they feel more like a liability than an asset,
because the units you build in Africa cannot be sent to help on the mainland, as opposed
to BH's flexibility in choosing where units can go depending on the fronts you create.
Orange Star's position is downright awful. If Green Earth signs a treaty with BH then he's
completely screwed.... his two bases vs. GE's three.
African Colonization really isn't that useful if you lose the war for your HQ...
manga_fanatic (04/13/2011 01:51am):
I believe a more important may be never to pick Colin, Hachi, or Grit when you're JS. ;)
Meta Rexy (04/19/2011 11:21pm):
That has nothing to do with it. >.>
there are three people who picked Hachi in that game, two of which you shared a border
with. What made me stand out? My weak position.
serativale (04/22/2011 11:52pm):
I just got to say this...

I absolutely love how you put the ports in this map.
Darth Hawke (05/10/2011 05:34pm | Edited: 05/14/2011 04:29pm):
While Red Fire and Teal Galaxy are probably in great positions in the beginning because
they don't have to worry about neighbor countries, Blue Moon is in the best position in
both beginning, middle, and end game. Blue Moon only has to deal with Yellow Comet in the
beginning since Black Hole won't be attacking Blue Moon at all unless the player has an
alliance with both Green Earth, Jade Sun, and Yellow Comet. Blue Moon also has the most
properties out of all the countries, three bases clumped together, and a total of four
ports with two actually being the most useful. Blue Moon also has to fight in two
directions, and only three if Red Fire or Green Earth sticks their landers and BB on
Norway and fight towards the North direction of Blue Moon, but even so, it takes too long.

I love this map, but I've had way too many scenarios of Blue Moon vs. anything left alive
in end game.
pen (07/15/2011 10:25pm | Edited: 06/23/2012 02:35pm):
10, totally....
pen (08/19/2011 09:11pm | Edited: 08/25/2012 09:51am):
nvm
zogar1993 (09/25/2011 01:36pm):
Please note that turquish port, its not really working exept for landers and black boats. idk if it is intended but i am
just pointing it out, Great map anyway!
Darth Hawke (11/08/2011 07:48pm):
I would love to see a great team game on this map. Unfortunately, this game would suffer
from boots and balance with the teams, but I do believe it can be an epic battle if it
goes smoothly. Anyway, here's the different teams I've come up with:

Team A: Orange Star, Blue Moon, Green Earth, Red Fire
Team B: Yellow Comet, Black Hole, Jade Sun, Teal Galaxy

I see this as balanced as it can get. While Orange Star will have the biggest trouble of
fighting both Jade Sun and Teal Galaxy, Red Fire can later provide Navy support later on.
Team A is spread apart more, but Team B has the advantage of being closer. Superpower Blue
Moon and Yellow Comet help make it balanced, and Team A on Africa really should focus on
either capturing the other bases for less trouble or focus on defending their base from
Yellow Comet. Either way, it is as balanced as I can see.


Team A: Green Earth, Black Hole, Jade Sun
Team B: Orange Star, Red Fire, Teal Galaxy
Team C: Blue Moon
Team D: Yellow Comet

This one isn't that balanced, but it would be a funner map in my opinion. While Green
Earth and Jade Sun on Team A are focusing on Orange Star, the other two armies on Team B
will be preparing their forces for a counter-attack. Team C and Team D is preferred to be
on different teams to act like "mercenaries" or to just provide annoyance to Team A since
they will most likely be getting a lead on Team B, but you can combine them into one team,
which is provide a bigger challenge. Like I said, not balanced, but more fun.
Master49 (05/16/2012 12:56am):
Plays very well. Probably one of the top 5 map most used in AWBW. Time after time has it
delivered an interesting and new game.
Dangerous Retard (06/23/2012 02:38pm | Edited: 06/23/2012 02:43pm):
@Darth Hawke

*more fun*


EDIT: I think OS RF TG GE JS vs BM YC BH would be best because in your first scenario
TG would get trampled early on and lose!
Ignorance (08/28/2012 07:31am | Edited: 01/01/2013 10:44am):
Great and inspiring map with many possibilities.

Also, an interesting fact, Green Earth as won more times than Blue Moon, so I guess
everyone above was wrong about Blue moon having that advantage, since everyone forgets
someone will quit, JS, BH and OS are most likely to quit, and then one of the other three
that I just said will take the properties of those who quit, thus making BM's time very
hard, since Europe has extreme choke point borders with indirects and masses of funds.

Nyvelion (01/03/2013 02:28pm):
That fact wasn't interesting at all.
Ignorance (01/04/2013 07:12pm):
Well, I never would of had guessed that you disliked being wrong about things, shame on me.
Veritech (01/07/2014 04:15pm | Edited: 01/07/2014 04:27pm):
If BH was the only Grit on this map, they might stand a chance.
Oh, and Koal has the best record on this map. I found that interesting.
Nyvelion (01/07/2014 06:01pm):
It's accurate or insightful, perhaps even important. I just don't see how it's interesting.
pen (07/16/2014 04:51pm):
Come on, Nyvelion, we are all aware of your personal vendetta against reality.
the-deadly-shadow (10/12/2014 12:19pm | Edited: 05/22/2015 03:47am):
From my opinion diplomacy is very important in this game. Everyone has expanding
probabilities if they sign the
right alliances. If you know your weakness, you can adapt your game to it. I like this
map. It is one of the rare
assymetric fair multiplayer maps, I would like to have more of them. The only remarkable
thing about this map
is that YS has both European bases on the frontline. I have seen that BM often does prefer
sending tanks to
Europe instead of scandinavia and that RF (and GE) can counter this with meches or
building a battleship at
the scandinavian port. RF can even hold egypt if he/she plays smart. 10/10

I think OS and BH are in the worst position. I would wish for OS and BH to have a
predeployed piperunner so
they do not fall in the early game.

I think it is also a pitty that the only way for TG to expand is attack OS, so that leaves
no options for diplomacy. OS: Hey TG, Do you like an alliance. TG: No, I want to win the
game and therefore I need to destroy you.
NDA|D007 (10/27/2014 09:46pm):
Possibly the best large map on AWBW. Encourages strategic play and active diplomacy like
no other. Accurate geography and asymmetrical design allow for highly engaging gameplay. A
little imbalanced but such is the nature of maps like these. A solid 10.
dudeman33 (01/28/2016 11:13am):
grit destroys this map
its too cramped he can just place a rocket in between the mountains and just blast away
Nyvelion (08/09/2016 12:00pm):
Neat map, about time someone made a map based off of Diplomacy.
Meta Rexy (07/28/2018 01:08pm):
12 years and this map never gets old. I think the only major problem
is artillery locking of French and Italian bases by Spain and Austria
(and France), respectively. It makes them disproportionately
powerful when fighting if you can spawn kill units. Moving Italy's
bases one space south and France's southern base one space north
should fix it.
coolguy5000 (01/28/2019 09:07pm):
Austria almost always gets destroyed in like the first 10 days, but if you survive then you're in a really good
position.
Surto (12/30/2019 12:45pm):
It's fun, and people still start like 5 games of it every week. Legendary map!
Lost and Found (05/26/2021 01:19am):
Could be alot more legendary if the map was more balanced.
Blue Moon - with its' massive fallback space and early access to scandinavia - and
Yellow Comet with its' ability to stale the mainland fronts and go on a crusade in africa
are the main winners here.
The reason GE's winrate is also up there is that unorganized FFAs - the most common
way the map is played - incur lots of boots, which GE is able to capitalize on best due
to having 3 bases in central europe and natural expansion towards each of their
borders. I'd wager in properly organized, active and bootless FFAs GE's position is
merely average for Europe's countries. (These random boots also smoothen out the
overall country winrates for the map.)
Even if this balance-by-booting is considered to be part of the map's charm, certain
starting positions can have trouble even playing the game proper without lucky boots -
JS in particular having both its' mainland bases lockable by artillery, and no efficient
way to bypass such a lock should it be established. Diplomatically causing enough
pressure to prevent these locks on both sides is entirely dependent on whether the
side's other relevant player (YC for BH, TG for OS) is willing to coordinate an attack
with GE, which is typically out of JS' diplomatic scope.
HittingWomenIsBad (02/04/2022 10:20pm):
This map is made for Hachi!!
melly (09/02/2023 03:53pm):
diplomacy is gay why do you want to talk in private with another man hrmmm


DCMCNess (04/01/2024 04:46pm):
Why does the french nation (the nation with the hq in france) has more bases while being the first player



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