Syn (1v1) 1.03
Creator: Evalora || First Published: 05/18/2009 || Players: 2 || Size: 8x8
Categories: None
Rating: 0 in 0 ratings
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Comments:
Evalora (05/18/2009 07:20am):
Just a little fun brawl map I thought up, the pipe seams limiting them from attacking
eachother until they get decent units, and then big brawl time. There's little point to
using your silo in the beginning, as you can't attack anyone yet anyway. Have to wait
until they almost break through, l'est they take it from you when they come. No
recommended weather/funds/CO bans/etc, would have Grit be banned but... Unit bans: All
indirect, ESPECIALLY pipe runners. The map is -far- too small for even a single artillery
unless both players agree to not start building any until a seam is broken. FTA/STA seem
invalid here, so I did not screw with them.
Clover_Fanboy (05/18/2009 07:45am):
The chokepoints will reduce this game to a halt, and with so few funds the game will go as
follows:

-Infantry
-Recon > Infantry
-Mech > Recon
Evalora (05/18/2009 07:48am | Edited: 05/18/2009 07:50am):
One can just edit the amount of funds you get per cities to 3000 per, to solve that...
though I'll take off one line of piping for the choke stuff.

Edit: Also made the bases closer to the edge of your territory, making it far easier to lose.
airob (05/18/2009 08:00pm):
no starting bases...massie chokepoint and FTA..3000 fund means boring...at least for
me..silos slow everythig up...and worse on a small map lke this...first one to fire silo
wins......no one bans indirects....just one neutral bases overral...fail sorry
Evalora (05/18/2009 08:07pm):
I will now show you why your entire comment is what fails, and not this map.
About the funds, change the funds per city upon making a game, genius.
About the choke points, gee, you think? It's an 8x8 map in pipes. It's not meant to please
tourneyfags.
About the FTA, it doesn't exist. There are no starting bases to build anything from on
first turn, and no goals to achieve faster due to pipe seams.
About the silos, if you burn it while both players are in the seam destruction phase, the
opponent can just retreat back to the cities to repair and then resume attacking the
seams. It'd be pointless and a waste, both players have capability to do 3 damage to any
massed units.
About the bans, I don't give a damn. If they listen to my suggested map settings, they do,
if not, I can't stop them.
About the bases, I could add one near the silo each, but they'd be too damn close to
everything else due to the tiny map.

You're a prime example of why this community is retarded. Clover's criticism was straight
and to the point, and made sense, at least, even though he missed the fund editing (just
like you, despite it was RIGHT THERE before you commented).
airob (05/18/2009 08:09pm | Edited: 05/18/2009 08:14pm):
sigh..be it as it may....just to tell you...the ifrst army..captures
the base first..so it build units first..so it has fta
but i tell y brudda....carefull calling this comunity retarded..in any case..why are you
on this "retarded" comunity anyway? some "retarded" people here may get mad at you
Evalora (05/18/2009 08:19pm | Edited: 05/18/2009 08:21pm):
I don't know why I came back, but the community pisses me off. A lot. Whether I design a
map that "looks like someone's brother's" thus it gets a 1, or there's choke points, or
something else, I get screwed over or flamed. A guy who knows far more about mapping than
me said there's hardly any FTA if there's no pre-captured bases, so I have to trust that.

Edit: Poof, +1 infantry for blaze. What a lot of people don't seem to get is that nothing
on my maps is final, everything is changable. Hence the version numbers. If you think that
really helps, then I'll keep it that way unless proven otherwise. That's how it goes.
airob (05/18/2009 08:22pm | Edited: 05/18/2009 08:23pm):
who is that guy????...and please..i havenīt flamed you...i if i pissed you then sorry.but
really the map is not good..ayway whoīs the dude who told you that? heīs obviously wrong i
say..
read these:
http://www.amarriner.com/awbw_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10780

to learn more about mapping and fta issues
Evalora (05/18/2009 08:29pm | Edited: 05/18/2009 08:30pm):
I've read all about smack's FTA bits, it's just taking a while to sink in, and it feels
like it's strangling any mapping creativity I have. Not used to the whole... one thing out
of whack = map ruined bit, used to dynamic maps where you could easily implement different
advantages, like civilization/warcraft/supreme commander.

Edit: Nothing that small can be good, really, like I said, I just made it to be fun,
nothing serious. As for the edginess, think of me as Sonja, counterattacks quite harshly
due to having to deal with flames a little too much in the past.
airob (05/18/2009 08:39pm):
u know..its not that just for reading a guide you will make map after map all the same
shit...no...itīs a guide and as a guide it helps on making maps and trying to balance
fairness issues...mostly i the starting phase of a game in that map...i said that too when
i just came here...i understood fta and how to counter, and still i tryied to make
innovative maps that still may be fair...much people does that..and it doesnīt strictly
mean that just because u saw a guide with 2base-1infantry counter and 1 neutral bases..u
will keep that system forever..just try to be innovative on the design and map ahead of
the starting bases...the guide is just mean to help u think on ways of countering
different map types with different fta issues
Evalora (05/18/2009 08:41pm | Edited: 05/18/2009 08:45pm):
It's mainly just that I don't like to think -that- much for every single map I make. Have
to do all kinds of theorizing and calculation.. everything has to be perfect. I wonder
what the aw2 team did for maps, a lot of them weren't as good as the S ranks, yet worked
perfectly.

Edit: Still, about the fta bit, I don't get it. How can there be first turn advantage with
no pre-bases like that? Like... even if someone gets to build units from a base first,
does it matter in this particular map? Both players have to try to destroy pipe seams to
even get to eachother, and both will wind up attacking the same seam most likely, so even
if you built the first unit, it's not like you'd have some kind of super advantage since
there's nothing bonus to capture, only a big unit which you couldn't've gotten on the
first turn would be able to bust some pipeage.
airob (05/18/2009 09:21pm | Edited: 05/18/2009 09:24pm):
take it as this for fta:
first army=A second army=B

turn1= army A starts two captures, so army B too
turn2= army Afinish captures, so army B
turn3=army A builds infantryand starts capturing remaining city, so army B
turn4= army A build artillery and reaches silo but donīt fire it , so army B
turn5= army A statrts blowing up pipe seam, and places all infantry near the seam, so army B
turn6= (depened on CO BUT LETīS ASSUME ITīS ANDY VS ANDY) aarmy A finish blowing pipe
seam(this is the difference) all infantry that were posstioned near the pipe seams are
ready to move and attack the army B infantry just because they move first..army B can
counterattack, but their infantry is weaker than army Aīs

also for the next maps u can make...u make them to be fair..if there are any flaws..when
itīs published people will tell you the flaws it may have...tough you must know which
people to believe...and not get tricked by noobs...thatīs the thing here..post your map
and people helps making it better..but of course..if itīs a really crappy map i bet no one
will even say anything more than "fail"..
Evalora (05/18/2009 10:08pm | Edited: 05/18/2009 10:11pm):
I think I know how to design stuff, it's just everything has to be perfect here. I still
don't get the advantage here. Infantry cannot blow open a seam, the seams are too choked
to flood infantry effectively, and surely it'd take at least 3 turns for an artillery to
blow it up, so it'd be more like turn 9. Even then, like I said, both people would
probably be attacking the same seam, as by default all indirects are banned on this map,
so there's no definite answer as to whos' turn it'd blow up on. Whoever's it did, they'd
get the first attack. Would have to get a tank, most might choose mechs, which would be
quite the delay either way. The goal is to have the pipe break on your turn, not the
other's, and combine that with a silo to get get a crippling assault on the enemy, then be
retaliated with a silo and take a hopefully not-so-good counterattack. If the
counterattack matches your attack, chaos ensues, if it fails to destroy your majority,
win! Also, do you have to -see- the pipe seam to attack it? Just wondering, 'cause I
design all my maps for fog of war.

In terms of my 3 maps, I've only gotten two people to give straightforward -constructive-
criticism, the rest were a shade or two away from a flame or already past that line.

Edit: Moved base to the outermost layer, so that if for some reason artillery is not
banned, it cannot attack a seam on the turn after it is built, also making it easier to
lose the base and thus lose entirely, the seam bit slightly slowing down the game but the
base bit speeding it up, since this map is supposed to be a speedy little brawl that
shouldn't last over 15 turns.
airob (05/22/2009 06:31pm):
Evalora (05/18/2009 09:08pm):
The goal is to have the pipe break on your turn, not the
other's, and combine that with a silo to get get a crippling assault on the enemy, then be
retaliated with a silo and take a hopefully not-so-good counterattack.


the one who fires the silo first wins in this type of map...simply because you will weaken
at lest a 60% of enemy units...and finishing them with tanks or mech,even infantry...and
then the enemy counteratacks with a silo too....he will weaken again your 60% of
units...but to finish off the work of those units that represent the 60%..he will have to
use his remaining 40%...leaving them at your range of your other 40%..again you will
strike first..proving that fta is still present

evalora:as by default all indirects are banned on this map

a map were indirects must be banned to be playable is not actually a good map to be honest

evalora:Also, do you have to -see- the pipe seam to attack it?

no. you can attack them even if it has fog...

evalora:Just wondering, 'cause I
design all my maps for fog of war.

then we ca present another fta issue here if htis is played in fog...obviously..the first
army builds the first artillery..attacks first and getīs his units placed first on behind
the pipe...then as soon as you blow your pipe you may have some artilleries in your HQ
ready to attack..now you only have to send an infantry towards the detroyed pipe seam to
see at least 4-5 enemy units and blow them "first" with your artilleries...and then what
will the opponent do with damaged units(if they are artillery, what will they do with 2hp
artillery?..

evalora:If the
counterattack matches your attack, chaos ensues, if it fails to destroy your majority,
win!

thatīs exactly the thing!!!...the counterattack will never match your first attack
..the second attack will never match the first as how this map is made

just to note...some overral rules express that one base in a map is not good...and also no
pre-owned(at least one...tough the best would be too..as a one pre-owned bse map is
difficult to balance fta...that happened to me if you wonder) so basically just one base
and no preowned ones will lead to eternal fta...maybe the extra infantry balances things a
bit...but it may also give STA (second turn advantage) thatīs when the fta counter is too
"high" for the map and it gives the last army advatage over the map..but letīs not enter
this now

i think i have explained myself to the best point possible..so i hope you understand
now...that it doesnīt has to be perfect..just playable...the people her will help you
making your maps better..every single map...but no map here is perfect really...and that
is a fact




Evalora (06/23/2009 05:39pm | Edited: 06/23/2009 05:47pm):
Thing is though, if you break just one pipe seam then your units are choked into a
one-tile pathway with enemy units all around.. if you cannot destroy one of the two units
next to the choke or take out the other pipe, then your attack is completely halted. It
just measures if you can take out the enemy's units adjacent to the seam in one turn with
the silo or not, and mechs are going to have an issue combo-ing as they only have 2
movement. Worst case, if a player expects the enemy to break the seam and launch the silo
next turn, launch yours before them, since it's not like they can just send units back
without crippling their force amount. Another thing to note is that the forests will halt
any advance on the base, as you'll run into the units and be stopped. No way to see them
unless you're Sonja with a CO power. Still, tiny maps are redundant with indirects, hence
why they shouldn't really be used.

Edit: Poof, no more silo, plus an extra base and reduction of infantry. Hopefully this
evens things out more.



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