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| Comments: |
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Infu (08/08/2013 02:26pm):
Welcome to Pipetory! With forced 2v2, ballanced map and easter egg hidden in top reefs! Rate and comment! |
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Xmo5 (08/08/2013 02:42pm):
Haha, I was trying so hard to figure out what "infu" was until I realized it was your username. Then it made sense ;) As far as the map goes, 2v2 games should be set up as OS + YC vs BM +GE so that one team moves first and last and the other team moves second and third. This balances FTA nicely. The only other complaint I have for the map offhand here is that your central airports might cause a couple of problems. First, you should avoid making properties equidistant between enemies; it becomes very unclear who gets the property and FTA becomes an issue. (This is a problem with you central silo as well) Its okay if they are near the battlefront, just so long as important properties like that are easy to initially capture without (much, if any) interference. Another thing to watch out for is how close production facilities are. Bases should be more than 6 spaces apart (more for recons) and airports should be more than 9 so that units can't reach the enemy base on the first turn they are built. That also adds to FTA. Oh, the middle is a little tight as well, maybe add some more space to move from one side to the other (eliminating/changing the large pipe square would help) Other than that, it looks fairly nice. And it really makes you work to protect your HQs! |
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Infu (08/09/2013 04:16pm):
My easter egg was written in morse code, if anybody wonders. Xmo5, you have my respect :) Your first complaint is right. I'm gonna change teams to balance FTA. Unclear who gets the property? Its matter of first turns. You could gather funds - go for cities behind lake(Or name that I like - Pipecities) or near HQ(PipeHQcities), or go straight to neutral bases(pipebase or mountainpipebase) Or little from this and that. Airports and Silo place(I have name even for that - PipeCenter) can be briliant powerup for one, or terrible trap left by missile\rocket users who just want to take down your new bomber. Its tight for purpose, for adrenaline rush. "First" isnt always "Best". Thanks for your constructive criticism, Xmo5. |
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Xmo5 (08/09/2013 05:08pm):
Usually I'm not too great at these things, but I immediately thought of Morse code for some reason haha In terms of balance, what I mean is sort of what you said: its a matter of first turns. Orange always moves first. That means that if everyone tries as fast as they can to get into the center and everyone does a perfect job Orange will get there first 100% of the time. Since the middle is so closed off, it means they have the first shot to get inside and set up a hard to access/defeat defense. The silo is 1 time use, so that gives them a big edge right away. Even if they can only capture 1 airport, they have the first chance to build an air unit. If they build a fighter, he other team can basically never build an air unit and Orange can build as many as they want. There are other factors to go into this obviously; missiles and individual player skill etc, but the bottom line is that balance should be based off of the concept "If everyone plays a 'perfect' game from their spot, who wins?" In cases like this, its almost always Orange, even if the turn order is balanced. I'm not saying you have to change it, but I just want you to understand that this is not something most players here will consider well balanced for the reasons above. As you said, I'm giving constructive criticism, so ultimately, you can make whatever decision you want and making just-for-fun type maps is never bad- but they just won't see a lot of action for serious and competitive type games. Hope this helps! Happy mapping :) |
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Infu (08/10/2013 04:09am):
Perfect game? Its really distant term to me :D Like I said, PipeCenter can be used as big power or big bait. In "Perfect" game, second team goes with counterattack, so we can talk about second team advantage. And list of potential imbalances could go on. There are many ways to gather various advantages over another team. Many ways of throwing "Perfect" game, including strategies without airports or silos ;) In my opinion, team games have lowest chance to be used for "serious type" plays. People quit, forget about games, resign midgame.. Have you seen completed 4+player map? Its really rare. I havent seen any A-map or S- map for more that 2 players. Thanks for advices Xmo5 :) Have nice day :) |
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Xmo5 (08/11/2013 01:39pm):
Haha, you're not alone on that one ;) I'm just saying that from a competitive standpoint, central bases/(air)ports/silos are inherently unbalanced due to the turn based gameplay. And the chokepoint situation there puts stalemate risk kind of high as well. I agree that it is uncommon for 4+ player games to finish without boots or anything, but I happen to be involved with a group of regulars that take fairly consistent turns. We finish 2v2, 3v3, and even some 4v4 maps without anyone getting booted on a regular basis (occasional early resigns, but typically our group won't resign, even with 1HP left on our HQ, just in case your partner can save you). We use maps that would never get league recognition for not being 1v1, but are typically balanced as accurately as possible. As I said, this might be good for a fun type match and you have the right to make any map how you like it, but it probably wouldn't get much play for games like that if that's what you were aiming for. As far as A and S rank go, I think those are only intended for 1v1 maps- FFA Multiplay and Team Play are where all the good 3+ player maps go I believe. Glad to find someone else on this site you can disagree with in a civil manner :) |
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