Another
Creator: Thror || First Published: 10/04/2014 || Players: 4 || Size: 23x23
Categories: B-Rank, FFA Multiplay, Standard
Rating: 7.33 in 9 ratings
For design map discussion or to get suggestions from other users, visit the AWBW Discord Chat!
Comments:
Treekn (10/04/2014 01:27pm):
Why do only GE and YC have a pre-deployed infantry?
Thror (10/04/2014 01:39pm):
It's meant like that to counter FTA, not sure if needed or not, so I could removed them if
it's unfair for OS & BM.

I just made the map so I'm testing it in a team match 'BM & GE' vs 'OS & YC'.
Hope you comment if you liked it or what you think could be improved or changed, kthxbai :)
Xmo5 (10/05/2014 12:07am):
FTA counter is more complicated when you only have 1 base per player. The basic idea of an FTA
counter is to take players that would normally go after their neighbors/opponents and make them go
before their opponents instead, but only *half* of the time. This is very easy if each player starts with 2
bases and under 4k funds because giving the player 1 infantry on 1 base, effectively means they went
first with that base, while they go second with the other. This is generally considered balanced (in terms
of turn order/FTA) so long as each base is approximately as important as the other.

If you added a second pre-owned base to each player, your counter would be correct. Without the
second base, all it does is give GE and YC a pseudo first turn, reversing the FTA problem, not solving it.
A lot of times when there are an odd number of bases, this is handled by giving the player(s) that move
last a pre-owned city instead of an infantry. The pre-owned city, however, is within 1 infantry move of
the opponent's starting base. This results in a few extra turns of 1k income to help put the last player(s)
ahead, but doesn't grant them earlier access to important properties or give them a unit to do
damage/shield later in the game. (These are all important aspects of FTA and counters). A good example
of a "kosher" FTA counter on a map with an odd number of starting bases is the map Truth Is by Walker
Boh which is both an S-Rank map and a Global League map.

http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=57364

Remember you can always look at maps like this in the Global League, A-Rank, or S-Rank, etc.
categories to see how certain situations are handled by map makers. Odds are if you don't see
something similar to what you're doing, then the map committee does not know of a good FTA counter for
the situation or does not consider the situation itself to be conducive to balanced, competitive play. There
are, of course, exceptions I'm sure, and certainly not all good/fun maps have to be designed for
competitive play. I do recommend good balance for optimal enjoyment on any map, however, (.... unless
you're amigo) and if anyone knows about how to balance a map well, its the map committee and people
like Walker Boh who have been around the site a long time and really know their stuff inside and out. (I
think he might actually have been head of the map committee at once point a while back.. someone
correct me if I'm wrong)

Anyway, hope that helps! Sorry for the long comment!
amigo123 (10/05/2014 01:55am):
xmo5 is estupido my maps are TB(THEBEST) very funfair top of the site

this map is okay(OK) 7/10 FWTKSFB
Thror (10/05/2014 07:19am):
Thanks Xmo5 for all the explanation of how FTA works, I didn't know it had such a deep
concept and makes me wonder what can I do to balance the map, from what you said maybe
giving the neutral bases to each country so everyone starts with two bases could work, and
I indeed took the setup from another map, but didn't notice all those details..
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=20757

Thank you again and any other ideas or comments of the map would be really appreciated :P


Btw, the question here is.. are you the real amigo? *mind blown*
Xmo5 (10/05/2014 09:16am):
estupido amigo thinks he is VGMM (VERYGOODMAPMAKER) and has BMOTSSFNBM
(BESTMAPSONTHESITE) (SUPERFUNNEVERBADMAPS)

This amigo is FA (FAKEAMIGO) and no es real! I am real amigo, send me message to my user
with space amigo%20123 and verify! EC (ESTUPIDOCABEZA)
Meta Rexy (10/14/2014 01:00am | Edited: 10/14/2014 01:02am):
LOL
You'll know Amigo123 when you see the games he makes. And the fact that he's not actually Spanish and is in fact quite racist with his sad imitation... -_-

Anyways, good map!
Javier probably isn't a great idea for this map though... he becomes broken once he takes over another player's comm tower and is very unlikely to have his momentum disrupted after that.
I'll put 8/10. It seems light on bases and funds for its size.... The airport is unlikely to see much use if you only get about 8000-10000 funds per turn (and this is WITH the contested central properties...)
It doesn't encourage teching up and allowing more expensive units (like bombers) to take advantage of the map's size...
As there isn't a third base for each side, and because the fronts are so large, infantry and artillery are going likely going to be seen less frequently here, instead being replaced by tank spam...
A third base and additional cities for players to cap will make it easier to deploy more expensive units and use more of the map.
Edit: the terrain may make it easier to use infantry + artillery, though the only way to find out is through tests...
Thror (10/14/2014 10:21pm):
The main idea for this map is a team battle OS & YC vs BM & GE with 1500 funds per turn,
optional FOW and Lab units of your choice, the usual ban of the broken 5 CO's + Javier, if
you test it please leave any thoughts of what you liked and what not, thanks :)
Xmo5 (10/29/2014 03:06pm):
I actually like the map with the FTA fix and because of the layout you could do FFA or
teams without a problem. Meta Rexy brings up some good points about the terrain and
airports, but I would have suggested the same 1.5x funds to compensate for the latter. The
central lab isn't really as bad as it could be, especially if a team situation since only
2 factions are fighting over it and only 1 player on the team gets the benefits. Odds are
that nobody will actually capture it until the tide starts turning anyway. Regardless, lab
unit choice can either make it too important or not even worth capturing. I would suggest
bombers, actually, just because they're so expensive anyway and can be countered with the
same units as copters meaning your opponent doesn't have to readjust their strategy very much.
Nyvelion (08/01/2016 09:50am):
If 4-Player maps could be A-rank, I might add this one.
Xmo5 (08/08/2016 12:15pm):
That's something we've been sort of working on. And by "we", I mean me, after getting a
semi-MC-blessing, and by "working on" I mean "started working on ages ago and have been
procrastinating ever since". Basically it involved going through every map categorized in
FFA or Teams and deciding if any belong in A or S rank. Multiplayer categories with no A
or S would be the equivalent of Casual Play.

The only things that make me hesitant about making it A-rank is the low income and the
improper counter for a high-funds setting. Otherwise, this is probably A-rank worthy. (The
bar also doesn't appear to be very high for multiplayer since it's had much less attention
from the competitive community and it's generally more difficult to make a reasonably
sized map that's balanced, dynamic, and fun.)
Xmo5 (02/15/2018 05:22pm):
(Also, this is A-Rank now)
Headphone (04/02/2018 12:52am):
I'd rate the overall layout a 9 or a 10, but the funding perside is much too low, making
it a 7 from me.



Advance Wars is (c) 1990-2001 Nintendo and (c) 2001 Intelligent Systems. All images are copyright their respective owners.