Creator: Urbani || First Published: 04/08/2015 || Players: 8 || Size: 39x40
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| For design map discussion or to get suggestions from other users, visit the AWBW Discord Chat! |
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Urbani (04/06/2015 04:20pm | Edited: 08/31/2016 12:03pm):
Phantom Domain Rules ~~~~~~~~~~SET UP~~~~~~~~~~ Fog: On Sonja Banned (South Segment Problems) Broken Five Banned (Grit, Kanbei, Sensei, Hachi, Colin) Sturm, Rachel, Von Bolt, Drake, Hawke, Olaf Banned (Damage Abilities) Lab Gating: Preferably None (Maybe something to try at a later date with this setup.) Orange Star has to be Javier and OS will be the games "Moderator". (OS will be referred to as mod from now on, as presuming I am modding the game, I am CI.) Mod units cannot attack unless they are produced by the effect of tokens (see tokens appendix). Set the game up as a free for all. The game is not truly free for all however due to the presence of roles (refer to roles for more information). The mod is not truly a player and is there to ensure the experience of the game does not go awry. If anyone has their win condition fulfilled, Mod will alert the rest of the players through broadcast to set draw and will eliminate all losers through means of the south west HQ area. ~~~~~~~~~~MAP~~~~~~~~~~ Explanation of South West: If a player is actively trying to break the game rules, has lost all units on the main map, or another player's victory condition is triggered, the mod will use the infantry in this sector to remove that player from the game. Removing players from the game in this way ensures a fast turn cycle. The mod has no other purpose for this infantry and will not capture all HQ`s as a joke. Do not use this infantry for target practice if for some reason you can get a unit in range to fire upon it. The mods backup plan for you doing this is to send an arbitrarily large number of mega tanks and/or piperunners and make the game less fun for you. Explanation of South East: At the start of the fifth day and every five days afterwords, The mod will publicly announce the winner(s) of the APC Lottery. (But not what they win.) To play the game, move your APC into one of the three available forests (top, middle or bottom). The players in the row of forests with the least number of APCs are the winners. Prizes scale upwards for being the sole winner. Prizes are up to the Mod's discretion (I suggest tokens in the early game and abilities or helpers later on.) Players that gain vision of the Neotank (through their APC vision) are not allowed to fire on it. Explanation of South-most West: At the start of the game, Mod will choose one player to be the Phantom anonymously. The mega tanks in the SW corner will cover the non-phantom players factoryies and leave the phantom the whole SW quadrant to capture giving them an advantage. Rivers around the factories prevent the phantom from building rockets and gaining vision of BM and bombarding that infantry. Explanation of South-most East: The SE corner contains the questing area. The Mod recons will not attack the infantry here but serve as a blockade. The Mod recons will move back at the cost of tokens. (See tokens appendix). Main Map: The map will normally start out as a seven-way free for all with the final goal of each player being to complete their roles victory condition. Players are allowed to interact with mod units however they would like however, the mod must follow specific rules listed here. ~~~~~~~~~~TOKENS~~~~~~~~~~ Tokens Appendix: Everyone starts with zero tokens and tokens can only be gained in four ways. Those ways are: 1) Sitting on Mod Labs - (See notes below.) 2) APC Lottery - (See notes under Map - Explanation of South East.) 3) Role Abilities - (See examples under Roles.) 4) Donation from Another Player - At any time, you may private press message the mod and choose to donate any number of tokens you have to another player. Possible uses include diplomacy or throwing other players off your trail by randomly changing your token count. You may choose to donate anonymously or allow the mod to include your country. Mod will press message you when your token count changes. Mod Labs: At the start of the fifth day and every five days afterwords, any player with a unit on top of a mod lab will receive a token. You may capture mod labs however this will prevent the mod from seeing who is on top of them and therefore turning off their ability to give players tokens. Tokens will be recorded by the mod and will be sent to you in a private press message. Token Purchases: 1 Token - SE Questing Area Purchase - Moves a Mod Recon back two spaces. (You may use this ability on other countries but if you don't specify it will be assumed you use it on your own.) 1 Token - Anonymous Mod Broadcast Message - Private Press Message the Mod, they will broadcast your message anonymously. 1 Token - Reconnaissance Scout - Mod private press messages you a link to an image of the central recon's and piperunner's vision range. (You may share the link freely among all players if you choose to.) 2 Tokens - Activate Mod Piperunners - Message Mod a country. For the next five days, Mod piperunners will be allowed to attack units of that country. (You may choose to target your own country.) 2 Tokens - Mod Lab Information - The mod messages you with all information of the current units on top of all mod labs. Info includes: Country, Fuel, Ammo, Health and Unit. 3 Tokens - Helper Unit Purchase Log - The mod messages you with the purchase history of mod units of target country. (Includes day sent, where it was sent, and what unit was sent.) Mod Helper Units - Message the Mod a country. Produces and sends the unit towards that country's base and only attacks that country�s units. You may choose to target yourself. 1 Token - Mod Tank 1 Token - Mod Anti-Air 2 Tokens - Mod Battle Copter 2 Tokens - Mod Medium Tank 3 Tokens - Mod Neotank 3 Tokens - Mod Fighter 4 Tokens - Mod Mega Tank 4 Tokens - Mod Bomber Mod helper units will be produced at the facility closest to their target. Mod Helper units AI: Mod helper units will move towards the original start location of the target country until they die. They will not attempt to refuel or repair and will attempt to attack the unit with the highest cost within Mod's vision. ~~~~~~~~~~ROLES~~~~~~~~~~ Roles are given to players at the beginning of the game, roles are random and are up to the mod's discretion to allow the correction of handicaps and to give each individual player a specialty. The phantom will always receive the phantom role (but may choose to bluff their ability to try to fool other players into thinking they are not the phantom.) Roles are private press messages on the mod's day one. Roles are formatted as the following: (Examples Below) *These examples include theoretical abilities, these are not the only possible roles and abilities are not locked based on what alliance your role is.* PHANTOM Alliance: Evil Win Condition: All players with the "Good" alliance are defeated. Abilities: On day five, and every five turns afterwords, you may attempt to steal 1 to 6 tokens (at random) from another country. Alliance: Neutral Win Condition: Survive long enough to see another player meet their win condition. Abilities: You will be warned whenever a player sends a mod helper unit after you. (This will be a private press message including unit type and country who is sending it.) Alliance: Good Win Condition: All players with the "Evil" alliance are defeated. Abilities: You have knowledge of all players token count. (This will be private press messaged to you at the start of each of the mod's turns.) Alliance: Good Win Condition: All players with the "Evil" alliance are defeated. Abilities: You start the game with one token. It is possible to have several phantoms in a game. If there is, they will share the south west corner. ~~~~~~~~~~MISC.~~~~~~~~~~ IMPORTANT: No new games will be started until I can edit some parts of the map. When the current non-Beta games are complete, I will resume creating games. Press and Broadcasts are encouraged and you will have your tokens tracked for you by the Mod. Upon request, you may have me send you a message to your user profile notifying you when a Phantom Domain game is created. --Leave a comment with any questions you have!-- ~~~~~~~~~GAMES~~~~~~~~~ In Progress: Phantom Domain Game 4 - In Progress. Completed: Phantom Domain Beta - Dated: 04/03/15 - 06/15/15. Day 17 Phantom Victory: Golden Nut. Phantom Domain Game 1 - Dated: 04/09/15 - 09/10/15. Day 15 Good Victory: Dittin, the-deadly-shadow, Dreadnought. Phantom Domain Game 2 - Dated: 04/27/15 - 08/13/15. Day 12 Good Victory: RoyBoy, Dreadnought, IPS. Phantom Domain Game 3 - Dated: 09/13/15 - 10/27/15. Day 4. Good Victory: Jackie Milton, Duf, the-deadly-shadow, Fruitigal. ~~~~~~CHANGE LOG~~~~~~ 03/04/15 - Beta Map Published. 08/04/15 - Map Published. Rule overhaul including APC lottery, New token appendix, Removed APC's for tokens and added labs, corrected playable CO's, tidied up bottom areas, centered map. 25/04/15 - Map Rules refined to take up less height and look pretty. 30/04/15 - Rule updates to prevent exploits in APC lottery and Questing areas. 25/05/15 - Rewrote some of the Token Appendix abilities wording to be clearer. 04/06/15 - Cleared up a couple of confusing sentences. Added games section (Updates to games will not be posted in Change Log.) 09/10/15 - Silos removed from phantom area, factories in center changed to cities, added mod airports, mod units and terrain updated, phantom area changed. 09/13/15 - Fixed a couple units for mod convenience. (Recons in questing area, neotanks in lottery area.) 08/31/16 - Fixed a couple of wrong units in the rules text. Waiting on large maps to get fixed so we can move back to the non-beta map. |
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Slazzy (04/08/2015 06:21pm | Edited: 04/08/2015 08:47pm):
I can't read it. |
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Urbani (04/08/2015 07:37pm):
Oddly enough the rule set of this game mode can not be reduced to a TL;DR. The game mode is quite intermediate and requires good knowledge and experience of both mafia and advance wars. It combines diplomacy, problem solving, and strategy in a way most other advance wars maps can't really offer without the set of rules above. Unfortunatly you will have to slog through the *hopefully* well written rules to understand the maps experience. If you have any questions about specific sub sets of rules, please go ahead and ask but I cannot exlain the full set of rules any better than my original post above. |
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Slazzy (04/08/2015 08:03pm):
And one probably has to remember all that... or read it, all of it, every time they need instructions. |
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Slazzy (04/08/2015 08:04pm):
FoW ON?! |
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Urbani (04/08/2015 08:40pm):
After you play the game mode it is pretty easy to figure out what is going on part way through the first run. Anyone who has experience with both mafia and advance wars will probably be able t get it fairly easily. Questions can also be asked to me if it's a specific question not explained well enough in the rules. Fog of War is on during the game. |
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Slazzy (04/08/2015 08:45pm):
I wasn't asking about FoW, i was just surprised+made an exclamation |
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Urbani (04/08/2015 09:36pm):
I didn't realize. The reason for fog of war is to prevent the players from seeing each others relative strength. By doing so, the phantom player (the player with hidden extra resources) can hide among the weaker players and fester until the other players kill each other thinking other players are the phantom until the true phantom is strong enough to take on the remaining players and win the game. That is just a short overview of how the game works. |
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Bamboozle (04/08/2015 10:21pm):
This has to be one of the coolest ideas for a game style I've ever seen. Complicated, probably, but the amount of thought behind it is really impressive. Kudos. |
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Urbani (04/09/2015 12:44am):
Thanks Bamboozle. |
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Golden Nut (04/09/2015 01:44am | Edited: 04/09/2015 01:47am):
Great map. |
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Urbani (04/09/2015 02:25am):
Thanks Golden Nut. |
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deathBLADE42 (04/09/2015 07:33am):
Nicely done would've taken a little while to do , rules seem decent and looks really fun good luck for the test run. 10 / 10 - ign |
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Xmo5 (04/09/2015 08:52am):
Wow, I'm impressed. You just invented an entirely new game using AWBW mechanics. On top of that, the mod has enough control that I think the game could be a little different every time. It'll be interesting to see if you can get enough people to stick with it (not get booted) to have some legitimate test games to find a good balance. Well done! |
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Slazzy (04/09/2015 10:00am | Edited: 04/09/2015 03:28pm):
Most amazing map/concept I've seen. Extremely complex to design [both]. You are very, very intelligent. This deserverses a 10 from everyone - please give him/her(?!) a 10, everyone! What is "ign"? |
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Urbani (04/09/2015 10:38am):
ThanksdeathBlade42, Xmo5 and Slazzy. This will actually be the second test game the first was a proof of concept on another map but this is the edited map with full features. Hopefully I can get some good games running on here. |
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the-deadly-shadow (04/09/2015 12:57pm):
I like it. However the phantom player can save funds (especially bad if he is collin) and wait until he can launch a mega tank spam. Maybe you could consider giving the mod some missiles, which can also be bougth. I think the main problem with Sonja will be that BM can spy on the southwest and see who is phantom. Another way to discover who is the phantom could be increased firepower. You are gonna notice if someone has 3 comtowers. I do not get the way you are assigned a role (phantom, good or neutral) |
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Urbani (04/09/2015 02:00pm | Edited: 04/09/2015 02:07pm):
@The-Deadly-Shadow Both Colin and Sonja are on the maps set up ban list. Colin because he is just too strong of a CO and Sonja for the exact reason you listed. It is possible for the phantom to start producing repetitive mega tanks at some point in time however, by doing this they will obviously out themselves as the phantom. Once the phantom is found out, it is in most player's interest to try and destroy the phantom. The other players will most likely team up and use their combined resources to take out the phantom. Although the phantom can normally fight off against possibly three other players at the same time funds and fire power wise, they will most likely lose to the mod helper units that the other players will deploy against them. Being able to pit six comm tower mega tanks as Javier against a three comm tower regular co phantom is an uphill battle that will be difficult to win once you have given up the information that you are the phantom. It is likely you will notice the increased firepower of the phantom *if* they capture all three of their comm towers immediately but this is a game of diplomacy and deception. The phantom will most likely capture one to match the other players then once they feel they can either win the game or they feel no one will notice the increase in fire power, they can choose to capture the other comm towers. The game is quite strategy heavy and I am sure players with more experience will find other ways to try to deceive other players or figure out who the phantom is. The reason I assign roles are for the following reasons: 1) Game Customization / Replay Value - Allowing several different roles and alliance types allows players to have a different game every time. Sometimes the game will include five good players, a phantom, and someone who doesn't care if who wins. Sometimes it will be two weaker phantoms in a game, and sometimes everyone might just be a neutral player which no one would expect to happen. The customization of roles allows for thousands of different role combinations and because of that, a unique replay value that advance wars can't bring in any other form than a custom map 2) Player Handicap - Some players are just stronger than other players, either by skill or experience in this sort of diplomacy style game or in Advance Wars. By peering at an accounts stats, I can easily see how much experience they have at advance wars and adjust roles according to that. Are they a brand new player? Maybe their role will start with the south east questing area partially opened up. Allowing that player with less experience (and most likely to make more mistakes) to not get overwhelmed because they will have a larger income in the earlier portion of the game. Is the player a veteran? Maybe they don't get an ability that actually helps them develop their army faster, but one where they can use their knowledge of advance wars and the game play of this map to their advantage. Such as being able to see where each player sends their purchased mod helper units and then they can try to derive information from that ability to learn how each player is doing on the map or if any player seems to be sending or receiving more helper units then average. Let me know if you have any other questions about the game mode! EDIT: Just encase I answered your question wrong because of a misinterpretation here is another way I could answer the final question. Your alliance is given to you as you receive your role (Examples are available in the Roles section of the rules.) The reason that roles are split up by alliance is because of the way the roles win conditions are phrased. Good alliance roles must remove all evil alliance roles from the game to win. The opposite is true for evil alliance roles. However some roles will have different win conditions and not all players are anti-phantom nor are all evil aligned players phantoms. Being the phantom just means you have access to the lower left corner of the map. Hopefully I did not make it anymore confusing. |
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the-deadly-shadow (04/09/2015 03:29pm):
Doesn't the ability ''You have knowledge of all players token count'' help to identify the good players and who are not? Those can notice the players that start with one token. By sending an obout it message to them they know you are good. If two people send a message to the same person, that person can tell them that they are good. Furthermore some good player can reveal he is good by sending information about the amounts of tokens of the reciever, if he is right, he is good. Another point is that if a phantom steals a high number of tokens, his token will increase to rapidly and this will be noted. As your abillity should be kept secret, you can not use it. Also as a phantom you might like to make someone else seem the pantom. However stealing tokens of someone far away is not possible to make him think he is the phantom. Also sending helper units to someone is neither possible( if he is neutral, he will notice that you did it for a strange reason). I would suggest that a phantom player might remove a random amount (1-6) of tokens chose how many of those removed tokens he wants for himself. |
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Urbani (04/09/2015 04:23pm):
@The-Deadly-Shadow The ability to have knowledge of all players token counts may or may not identify who the good players are from others. The ability to start with tokens is not restricted by your alliance and even an evil aliiance can start with tokens. The ability to have knowledge of token counts is also an ability that is not restricted to your alliance. Any player can have that ability. If the phantom steals a high amount of tokens from a player, it is up to the phantom to come up with a reason on how he achieved so many tokens. Possible excuses could include winning them from the APC lottery or having a Token Producing Ability. The phantom might also have a different ability than the example above in the Roles section of the rules. When player send mod helper units to attack another country, it is done so anonymously (unless you have an ability that states otherwise) so the player that gets attacked by a mod helper unit has no clue who sent it or what that player's motive was. |
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MorganLeah (04/09/2015 05:24pm):
You had me at "mafia" |
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Urbani (04/09/2015 05:55pm):
Strangely enough it seems like a large population of AWBW loves mafia. |
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Nyvelion (04/13/2015 07:30pm):
Good to know I'm not alone on that. Though you're the pro at Advance Wars Mafia now. |
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Nyvelion (04/22/2015 11:39am | Edited: 04/22/2015 11:39am):
Awwww, I missed the test game for this... and it's moving faster than the beta map... I want to join if you do this again! |
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Urbani (04/22/2015 10:31pm):
I'll reserve a spot for you on the next run of the map which I will defenitly do soon. |
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IPS (04/26/2015 02:32pm):
The idea of the map is brillant, It's much more than a mere FFA map, reasson why I like this :D |
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Urbani (04/26/2015 02:53pm):
Thanks IPS, its definitely much more than a FFA map. Its a map that essentially requires diplomacy and press and at such a high amount that it may be more necessary than the Advance Wars mechanics itself. |
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Slazzy (04/27/2015 02:25pm):
I sent the earthquake in Nepal. |
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Nyvelion (04/28/2015 10:46am):
It's pretty absurd, and I'm possibly the only one weird enough to even think of it, but... hypothetically, someone can attack the megatank with their remaining infantry on Day 1, get it killed on purpose, message everyone in press about what they did, pointing at their power bar value, giving strong proof that they aren't the phantom, and absolute proof that they aren't the phantom if the real phantom uses any missile silo. |
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Urbani (04/28/2015 10:31pm):
It took me a second to realize what you were talking about but now that I understand how insane that is and how that works. You are single handily gonna cause me to wait for the remaining games to end and patch that. Nice Job. I don't want that to be a valid strategy but nice work finding that out. |
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Pika Rizard (04/29/2015 09:41am | Edited: 05/02/2015 04:17am):
But what about OS, he is a winner or a loser. I wanted to create many games (as "minigame", using AW as base), but they must have a player as a judger (like your moderator). But the mechanics of this game has many disadvantages for a judger: 1) Things I mention above 2) Judger must have 1 turn in a day. So he cannot interfere in the middle of someone's turn or between turns. 3) Judger often have a huge power in the game. So how can we know that judger drive the game in the right way or not ? So we must have score (or something like that) so that we know who is a fair judger. (I think in your games, you always be the Moderator. So what if this map is played in the league ?) 4) If one player break the rule, that player must be disqualified immediately by the judger. But it takes 2 days to capture HQ . |
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Pika Rizard (04/29/2015 09:53am):
And about this game, I have played "Mafia" before (is it a game like "Werewolf" ?), the most important thing is: players can't peek at other players' role, or unite. So when you play this game, you must turn off "Press" mode... But they can send messages... I don't know what to do. But of course the message can be a lie... |
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Urbani (04/29/2015 12:17pm):
Thanks for the comments Pika Rizard, I am a little confused about some of the stuff you are saying but I will try my hardest to answer your questions. 1) The mechanics of the game will definitely be more difficult than just a flat out mafia engine or a lot of other engines with more customization but I do love AW and have the ability to customize some of the options through map design to create a map where I feel the Mod has enough control. 2) Yes the mod does have one turn a day. It is a limitation set by the game itself presuming I don't want to have multiple separate accounts going in between each player's turns. I have hopefully ignored this fact by making most abilities and mod decisions based on a per turn bases. Mod updates, helper units, APC Lottery, Broadcasts, etc. follow this rule. 3) It is true that you can not know whether or not a mod will be fair and won't abuse their power to smite every other player. I myself enjoy modding and will almost always mod any game I create but anyone willing to accept the responsibility of the mod will just have to be trusted by the other players. I don't think this has the possibility to be a league map as from my understanding, a league map has to be a symmetrical two player map with great design and intricate combats. 4) In most cases, rules that are important enough that breaking them would cause me to kick you from the game have been patched up. If for some reason I do need to remove a player from the game, it will need to take two days as that is just a limit I can not speed up in anyway. Even if the player is unruly the additional turn they get should not cause any real damage to the game. 5) The game is similar to mafia/werewolf however, newer online versions of the game allow in game chat and some of them allow private messaging among other players. This allows a great deal of diplomacy into this style of game which already meshes quite well with the diplomacy that exists in larger multiplayer AW games and in my opinion enhances the Phantom Domain experience. |
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Pika Rizard (05/02/2015 01:55am):
One more thing: you consider the mod as a winner or a loser in the game? (that my #1 question) |
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Urbani (05/02/2015 02:46am):
I don't consider the mod a winner or a loser, they are just there to run the game for the other players. The game will consider the mod a winner. |
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MorganLeah (05/04/2015 03:37pm):
Not that it matters much, but you could start capturing all the HQs on turn 1, so if you did need to eliminate a player later you could finish the capture immediately. |
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Nyvelion (05/05/2015 05:06pm):
Yeah, and the mod should do that as Sami, unless the mod needs to be a different CO, in case someone breaks the rules on purpose, knows they'll about to be modded, and decides to use missile silos on the HQ infantry to slow that process. |
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Urbani (05/06/2015 01:39pm):
@MorganLeah The problem with the current set up is if the mod starts capturing a HQ the south west area of the main map can gain vision and fire on the now revealed infantry. @Nyvelion Hopefully someone won't just decide, lets break the rules and hinder the mods ability to kick them. If the rule breaker is Sasha and has the ability to get into range to rocket the infantry on the HQ the Sami plan won't work. At least as mod Javier if the rule breaker does prevent their HQ from being captured. They won't be able to stop the Mod police force from forcibly removing them from the main map. |
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Nyvelion (05/22/2015 02:54pm):
This might also seem absurd, but hypothetically, can you use a token to move back a Megatank for someone else as a show of trust? |
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Nyvelion (05/22/2015 02:57pm):
Actually, having thought of that... for the same reason, can you have recon data shown to another? And also, possibly as a trick to show someone has it out for you, can you use tokens to ask OS to attack yourself? |
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Urbani (05/25/2015 12:32pm):
I actually never specified whether you could move a mega tank back for only your self or other players. It is kind of a more controlled form of token donation in a way. I would say you could spend a token to move any player's mega tank two spaces back. Reconnaissance data will only be sent to the player who purchases it however you are free to share the link to the screenshot to any other player or just flat out broadcast it if you would like. You are allowed to target yourself with Mod Helper units. The brainstorm of these ideas will be updated in the rules. Thanks for the help Nyvelion! |
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hobbesTHEfat (05/30/2015 02:57pm):
can i ask why i got kicked out? I wasn't idle and i didn't break any rules. |
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Urbani (06/03/2015 12:33pm):
Hey, hobbesTHEfat. I sent you a press message in the game you were removed from but if you didn't see it I will write it here as well. You had exceeded the boot interval for the game and were automatically removed. When it becomes your turn, the boot timer starts and after that timer ends (in this case, seven days) you become automatically removed. Hopefully this clears things up for you and I hope you can join another one of these games in the future. |
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Everdan (08/02/2015 10:18am):
whoo, looks interesting. sign me up for the next game~ |
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Urbani (08/05/2015 05:20pm):
I'll add you to the list. Just need to finish up two games so I can fix up some of the map problems then I shall launch more. |
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Pika Rizard (09/12/2015 11:22am):
please add me to the next game. |
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Urbani (09/12/2015 10:32pm):
I'll add you to the list. |
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BountyFrog (10/28/2015 08:25am | Edited: 10/28/2015 08:40am):
I have to say that this looks great, looking forward to the new game starting. Add me to the list as well please. |
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Urbani (10/28/2015 01:13pm):
PMed |
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Slazzy (11/09/2015 04:26pm):
I'll never be able to play this... |
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Urbani (11/09/2015 11:43pm):
In what sense? The rules are here for review. If you would like to join a game let me know and I'll add you to the queue. |
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Slazzy (11/29/2015 11:26am):
I have extreme concentration issues. I can't even read the rules, so you guiding me would be hopeless. |
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observerandhost (06/14/2016 10:41am):
6 Tower Javier has 80% defense against indirects, which means his units are indirect- invincible in 2 stars+ terrian. |
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Urbani (06/16/2016 06:16pm):
Yes, that way the infantry cannot be removed from the HQ area and the neotanks can not be removed from the APC Lottery area. |
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observerandhost (06/17/2016 11:14am):
Seriously, blocking the building exit of OS can be a serious problem. How to solve it? Also it's hard to know whether there is any unit alive in the main map for a certain player. |
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liandry (06/22/2016 03:51pm):
@observerandhost Indirects would probably do the trick for #1 Also, people may resign if they can't do much, or they may tell the host if they've lost on the main map. |
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observerandhost (06/23/2016 12:47am):
Yet moderators are not allowed to build indirects, are they? |
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Urbani (07/27/2016 11:13am):
Sorry I missed this info since I normally talk to you through PM. -Blocking mod spawn points is legal. Mod units will spawn at the closest point to the targets starting area. -It is hard to know how many units are left on the main map for that player. Making APC HQ's a idea I want to implement. -Mods can't naturally produce ranged units to unblock spawn points. |
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ichbinsehselber (08/30/2016 12:52pm):
a very interesting map. Before my first game on this map / in this scenario rating it (9/10) it would be nice if you could update your first post as apparently some mega tanks were changed to recons in the SE Quest area (spending 1 token now moves the recons not the mega tanks). It was a bit confusing for me when I first tried to understand the map. |
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Urbani (08/31/2016 12:01pm):
That is a good point, this is actually the beta map and it was slightly updated before I decided to just make a new map for it in general. But I can see the problem for new people reviewing the rules. I will update it. |
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ichbinsehselber (09/08/2016 12:32pm | Edited: 09/08/2016 12:33pm):
Some players are closer together than others (10 squares base distance and 8 squares base distance) This is probably not easy to fix with 7 players + host. Without having completed a game, I think the phantom gets a lot of properties. As people need some time to find out who is the phantom it may be a bit too much. Especially since the extra buildings are totally safe from capture. Most likely the phantom can bring at least one player down before an alliance can form against the phantom. On the other hand if the phantom is alone in team evil the balancing may be ok, to be found out in the test matches. |
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observerandhost (09/18/2016 09:41am):
If you can form an alliance of 3 vs 1 against phantom, a skilled phantom can be stopped. And it is really possible and easy. If players are skilled while phantom is not, a player can push the phantom to the edge. The result is based on the past uncompleted game. Not to mention the arbitary number of mod units the alliance can have. The more mod units there are after a player, the more useful they are with combined vision. |
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ichbinsehselber (10/19/2016 04:01am):
I suggest to define defeat condition. When is a player considered defeated? The normal defeat conditions do not work here (I cannot capture my enemy's HQ and I have no chance to find and destroy all units) So it could be one or both of the following conditions: -player has no units left in the main play area -player has no properties left in the main play area If the defeat condition is fulfilled, will the host capture the HQ? |
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observerandhost (11/08/2016 12:44pm):
The host should avoid to capture the HQ as it may make his units neared to invincible. So we have APC HQ in the latest version and fewer towers for the host. I think we need a change in the purchase list for this version and the latest one... |
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ichbinsehselber (11/22/2016 01:44pm):
Yes, I fully agree. Even more towers for the mod would be bad. Can you put a reference / link to the latest version of the map? |
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Slazzy (12/26/2016 08:45pm):
wow |
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observerandhost (12/27/2016 08:27am):
Another game ended. It is a victory for Evil Alliance(BM, the-deadly-shadow; RF, ymouba) Maybe the last game on this map. |
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the-deadly-shadow (12/27/2016 01:29pm):
I don´t think if the idea works very well. In general, people are mainly concerned with their neighbours. Most players know about diplomacy and do only take one frontier, with a 7p map, that means that someone is likely to be double-teamed. I think it is to difficult to detect a smart phantom. If you act like a good ally, your neighbours won´t accuse you of being the enemy. If someone might find out who is the phantom, then it will still be hard to form an alliance. Most other players are fighting each other and suddenly there is you, who tries to tell them to unite. That doesn´t work very well. The thing gets worse if the phantom has an ally or if the phantom spreads confusion and forges himself an alliance against the others. I think it is hardly possible to forge an alliance against a smart phantom. |
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a9977321 (01/02/2017 10:32pm):
This indicates that we need some special ability to give Good Alliance more information to help them find the liar and likely the phantom. While in fact few want to play calmly and act till the alliance is clear, such an situation may occur, and can ruin the gameplay in continuous waiting. So this calls for special victory conditions, rather than a weird ability. Soon I will attempt to host another match on this map, with a newer version of purchase list and APC HQ setting. The more games we have, the more balanced it can be. |
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ichbinsehselber (01/05/2017 12:47pm):
I agree with the last 2 comments. I want to add that multiplayer scenarios like this are extremely hard to balance. Then factor in the differnt skills of the players and the fact that in AWBW advantages tend to grow and the map maker is already put in an impossible situation. An option for a good player skill would be to give vision to 1 square in the phantom city area from time to time. The chance to detect the phantom's identity increases with the number of properties which the phantom takes. E.g. you can look at the first square at turn 10 then at turn 15 another one turn 19 another one 22, 24, and then each turn. So the player with the skill will eventually know the phantom identity for sure. But then the phantom is already very powerful and the other players might still not believe the good player. |
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Floortje (04/21/2024 08:53pm):
Looks fun, but big flaw with the mega tanks in the SW. Or perhaps it's intentional to allow players something to work with If you organize it there's 7 megatanks below 7 bases, each mega tank could move up or stay still and players wouldn't know anything. But with the way it is now, players can look at what direction the megatanks came from and piece together some information from that. Or they might ask other players what direction theirs came from and piece together who might be lying. |
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