Echo Ridge 2018 January
Creator: wilkyb || First Published: 01/10/2018 || Players: 2 || Size: 25x27
Categories: None
Rating: 1.50 in 20 ratings
For design map discussion or to get suggestions from other users, visit the AWBW Discord Chat!
Comments:
wilkyb (01/10/2018 01:35pm | Edited: 01/15/2018 03:57am):
Reccomended CO bans: hachi, nell, sami, colin, grit, kanbei, sensei, sonja, kindle, lash, sturm, VB
wilkyb (01/10/2018 01:35pm | Edited: 01/10/2018 01:39pm):
here is the previous version of Echo Ridge with more comments to read:
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=72746
wilkyb (01/10/2018 01:36pm | Edited: 01/10/2018 01:39pm):
lol who rated my map 1/10 without leaving a comment?
wilkyb (01/11/2018 02:04am | Edited: 01/11/2018 02:09am):
My map is under attack!! 0.75 average in 4 ratings? I didn't even know that was possible to go below 1!!
would you guys please comment why you score this map so low?
wilkyb (01/11/2018 06:21pm | Edited: 01/11/2018 06:23pm):
As a note before the comment section of my map becomes a warzone:

If you are not willing to play on my map to prove your point, then don't expect me to give you the benefit of the doubt. I
won't waste time theorycrafting FTA and gameplay if you are not willing to prove it in-game!
MasterKnightDHV2 (01/11/2018 07:33pm):
Leadership in the Advance Wars communities in general is actually God awful. The Advance
Wars subreddit is actually at the worst of it as I point out in the pinned comment here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoP1L8evwDc
Unfortunately, the other AW communities, including AWBW's map committee sadly, have their
own elitism and apathy going on. I'll grant that your map clearly shows signs of being too
quickly put together from terrain variety issues, open field size bloat, lack of
consideration against FTA, etc., but it's not like Advance Wars is without its own design
problems that the AW communities just want to ignore thinking it's perfectly fine.

I need only provide the math behind the required effort to flank. In a real movement game,
moving diagonally is all that is needed to shift along a given value along the X and Y
axes, and requires only 1.4 times the effort for doing that for only one axis. With a game
like Advance Wars that uses basic square gridding, shifting the given value along both
axes requires twice as much effort as with only one axis. Oh, and if you're curious what
the formula is on hex-gridding map games like Nectaris/Military Madness, it's 1.5x.

If you need the laymen's terms (as I don't doubt), it's that flanking is already made
harder by AW's own design.

Not helping matters with AW's general design is how it's underwhelming to try to siege
with anything but Artillery spam. If you don't, your expensive tech units are at
ridiculous risk of being countered. I can appreciate the heavy tanks being able to
anti-flank to make busting them less oversimplified, but there's no reason flanking,
period, should get so railroaded that a defensive position is going to be horrible to
punch through simply due to unit bloat.

I don't think ANYBODY caught on for the longest time because there's enough manipulative
map design throughout the series. Days of Ruin particularly proves to a very bad offender
of hating anybody who considers the idea of flanking. The CO Unit system speaks for itself
in that regard, and there's also the Campaign map design. I found only ONE Campaign map
that gets to age decently with flanking in mind, and ironically it's *STILL* subpar in its
own right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtwZz9twp6Q
Meanwhile, maps like C22 proves even stupider when you remember that the River makes
flanking from the north impossible. Look through Days of Ruin's Campaign maps if you want
more examples; I very much doubt you'd find anything beyond maybe exceptions to the rule
I'm laying out.

It's not like this manipulative map design hasn't been around in earlier games; I need
only point to Gunfighter in AW1, which speaks for itself. The underlying problem is how
these maps become needlessly story-driven at the cost of gameplay competence. What I would
expect out of a strategy game is competent options, not being told by "gameplay" to move
right where an inflexible story demands I be.

I could call out other balance issues in the AWs, such as Anti-Air Tank VS Infantry not
having better freaking better base damage, or God forbid the division defense, but this
comment is already long enough as it is. If you need details, I have Skype (mknightdh) and
Discord (MasterKnightDH#2492).

If you can make a good map that encourages flanking well enough anyway, fire away. Of
course, I'm not putting money on that happening any time soon, though that's just me being
cautious, and I actually wouldn't be surprised if it could happen.
wilkyb (01/11/2018 10:07pm | Edited: 01/11/2018 10:07pm):
this is a rabbit hole I am not surprised exists

what has this world come to
wilkyb (01/11/2018 10:09pm | Edited: 01/11/2018 10:11pm):
thank you for your feedback

this is the depth of knowledge that I am looking for

thank you thank you thank you
MasterKnightDHV2 (01/16/2018 08:02pm):
Made a video responding to all the awful negativity from the AW subreddit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNaXIZMJ0cs
I do need to point out that you do need to be watchful you don't get riddled with hubris.
Of course, the general arrogance in VG communities is ridiculously awful anyway.
Jackie Milton (01/17/2018 10:51pm):
Man. What a wild ride!



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